celica N.A engine conversion, what engines better Options

[xxFROZENxx]

hey guys im just keen to do a N/A engine swap for my celica.. its a 1995 st204r celica with a 5sfe engine...
out of a 3rd gen 3sge and a beams motor.. what would you guys recommend?

my goal is to bulid my celica as a N/A tune... i want good top end power and beat some honda's.. so which motor is suitable for me?

thanks

[Johnnyny]

hey guys im just keen to do a N/A engine swap for my celica.. its a 1995 st204r celica with a 5sfe engine...
out of a 3rd gen 3sge and a beams motor.. what would you guys recommend?

my goal is to bulid my celica as a N/A tune... i want good top end power and beat some honda's.. so which motor is suitable for me?

thanks

well beams is faster than the 3sge and im sure there is a way to have custom camshafts even with the vvt-i for s good N/A mod

[Rusty]

oh goodie another 3S-GE vs BEAMS swap discussion. (lets all behave now)

It depends what you want to get out of the engine and what you want to put into the engine.

what power & torque are you looking at?

Are you interested in rebuilding a motor or installing and tuning a computer??

[Johnnyny]

oh goodie another 3S-GE vs BEAMS swap discussion. (lets all behave now)

It depends what you want to get out of the engine and what you want to put into the engine.

what power & torque are you looking at?

Are you interested in rebuilding a motor or installing and tuning a computer??

wat would u pick?

[Rusty]

well I already have a gen 3, so I'd stick with that.


one good thing that you live in aussie is that you have a great resource, Glenn Booth (almost 200KW out of the BEAMS 3S-GE)

[Ted95]

beat some honda's

some hondas or alot of hondas? lol

bc i had a thread in here asking about which swap to do and such but mine was between the Beams and the 3sgte... u can beat SOME hondas with the Beams, but u also have to think like this... honda has just about every aftermarket part u can think of out there to make the N/A motor have more power... the Beams is kinda long shot from what i was told..

i had the same statement, "i want to beat hondas", ppl told me to go with the 3sgte so i did. if you want to beat some hondas, take the Beams .. but if u want jsut about all of them, go for the 3sgte. thats IMO

good luck with the decision!

[xxFROZENxx]

lols i beaten alot of Honda's with my GTIR...

but i want i beat some Honda's with my celica as well...

do you guys think a 3rd gen 3sge will do the jobs with some modifications like full exhaust, CAI, CAMS, ECU, Fuel pump ect...

Hey Rusty i notice you have a 3rd gen 3sge.. how does it go? will it take on a dc2 intregra? how much power are you making?

[njccmd2002]

why is it always about beating hondas?

The beams is good, not that good. you want to beat hondas put a 3sgte there. Seriously.

[xxFROZENxx]

i want to do that with an N/A celica... will the 3rd gen 3sge motor do the job?

[Espo]

i want to do that with an N/A celica... will the 3rd gen 3sge motor do the job?

3rd gen 3sge as I understand is easier to find parts for and has better aftermarket support. 3SGE BEAMS is the best NA swap you can do to a celica but parts are much more rare and aftermarket support is much less.

[Rusty]

lols i beaten alot of Honda's with my GTIR...

but i want i beat some Honda's with my celica as well...

do you guys think a 3rd gen 3sge will do the jobs with some modifications like full exhaust, CAI, CAMS, ECU, Fuel pump ect...

Hey Rusty i notice you have a 3rd gen 3sge.. how does it go? will it take on a dc2 intregra? how much power are you making?

Yup I do have a 3rd gen 3S-GE, making 150WHP atm and goes pretty good. (cant really comment on the intregra thing sorry). However with that list of mods, could make a very quick Celica

honda has just about every aftermarket part u can think of out there to make the N/A motor have more power...

true, but they're stock apart from intake & exhaust where I am.

[njccmd2002]

v6 swap...

[Ted95]

why is it always about beating hondas?

bc everyone has them and builds them and the "honda kids/ppl" think they r king sh!t and that honda rules all... well i beg to differ lol i want to build a nice JDM car thats not a honda and shut the honda kids up with a toyota and show them that you can make goood power from a yota (on the track of corse )

Yup I do have a 3rd gen 3S-GE, making 150WHP atm and goes pretty good.

idk to much about the 3sge but that sounds like some pretty decent numbers from a motor that has around the same specs as a stock 5s ... right? cuz my 5s isnt pushin 150whp all tho i wish it did righ now.. but im swappin a 3s anyway so idc lol

This post has been edited by Ted95: Jul 24, 2010 - 1:54 PM

[Edophus]

if your trying to match the honda type-r for example regardless of which engine, gen 3 or beams you will struggle unless you shed some weight from the car because even if you match them on power the gen 6 still weighs more. Once stripped out my ss3 with beams was faster than some type-r's and not as fast as others but overall was a good match for similarly setup integra's as even though many of them were stripped they had a lot less weight to lose!

as for which engine i think it very much depends on your long and short term goals, and your budget, and of course availability of the engines around you both have pro's/cons.

[Ted95]

if your trying to match the honda type-r for example regardless of which engine, gen 3 or beams you will struggle unless you shed some weight from the car because even if you match them on power the gen 6 still weighs more.

i have a hard time believing that a 3rd gen stripped would lose to a type-r ... they make wat 210hp? the 3rd gen makes 265hp i believe on stock boost. u can turn the boost up and make about 300whp... i think you can beat a type r with a 3rd gen UNstripped no problem... ill have to find out once my 3rd gen goes in.. (on the track of corse lol)

[Ted95]

if your trying to match the honda type-r for example regardless of which engine, gen 3 or beams you will struggle unless you shed some weight from the car because even if you match them on power the gen 6 still weighs more.

i have a hard time believing that a 3rd gen stripped would lose to a type-r ... they make wat 210hp? the 3rd gen makes 265hp i believe on stock boost. u can turn the boost up and make about 300whp... i think you can beat a type r with a 3rd gen UNstripped no problem... ill have to find out once my 3rd gen goes in.. (on the track of corse lol)

[Ted95]

if your trying to match the honda type-r for example regardless of which engine, gen 3 or beams you will struggle unless you shed some weight from the car because even if you match them on power the gen 6 still weighs more.

i have a hard time believing that a 3rd gen stripped would lose to a type-r ... they make wat 210hp? the 3rd gen makes 265hp i believe on stock boost. u can turn the boost up and make about 300whp... i think you can beat a type r with a 3rd gen UNstripped no problem... ill have to find out once my 3rd gen goes in.. (on the track of corse lol)

[Euphoria]

I haven't read the other posts but Beams isn't worth the 2k+ difference between a 3rd gen which is 20hp in it which can all be easily done with cams, exhaust, intake etc.

Get the 3rd gen and spend the other money elsewhere

[Rusty]

if your trying to match the honda type-r for example regardless of which engine, gen 3 or beams you will struggle unless you shed some weight from the car because even if you match them on power the gen 6 still weighs more. Once stripped out my ss3 with beams was faster than some type-r's and not as fast as others but overall was a good match for similarly setup integra's as even though many of them were stripped they had a lot less weight to lose!

as for which engine i think it very much depends on your long and short term goals, and your budget, and of course availability of the engines around you both have pro's/cons.

part availability does play a part, since I'd hate to wait a couple of weeks for a simple but necessary part. Local laws to remember aswell and totally agree with the weight loss.

if your trying to match the honda type-r for example regardless of which engine, gen 3 or beams you will struggle unless you shed some weight from the car because even if you match them on power the gen 6 still weighs more.

i have a hard time believing that a 3rd gen stripped would lose to a type-r ... they make wat 210hp? the 3rd gen makes 265hp i believe on stock boost. u can turn the boost up and make about 300whp... i think you can beat a type r with a 3rd gen UNstripped no problem... ill have to find out once my 3rd gen goes in.. (on the track of corse lol)

from above we where talking about DC2 Integra makes 197BHP (guessing 160/70 WHP)

AAhh what? a 3rd gen 3SGE doesn't make that kind of power... Um stock boost, your talking about the 3gen 3S-GTE which makes 250BHP. This is a discussion about naturally aspirated engines (V6's, the BEAMS redtop 4th gen 3S-GE & the Gen3 3S-GE <which is the nonturbo one)

I haven't read the other posts but Beams isn't worth the 2k+ difference between a 3rd gen which is 20hp in it which can all be easily done with cams, exhaust, intake etc.

Get the 3rd gen and spend the other money elsewhere

to unlock the great potential of the engine either engine you need an ECU, so drop a link in it

This post has been edited by Rusty: Jul 28, 2010 - 2:35 AM

[Edophus]

i think if you can get the beams cheap enough, its well worth it as a base as its already a good spec internally with its bigger valves, higher compression etc, if you do the math of what it would take to get a 3s-ge to the same spec and compare it to the price of the beams then it may or may not be worth it, its not really clear cut.

If you want to just bolt up off the shelf parts the beams isnt for you though, the beams requires more effort to tune and you have to be more resourcefull about it, its more of a challenge but ultimatly will yield more power as a result, the vvti is a very nice bonus and fills out the lower and midrange of the torque curve nicely, its also advantageous when turbo charging as you can use vvti tuning to spool the turbo up sooner, being able to move the cam around has a lot of bonus's, its a question of whether having these features are worth it to you, or worth the hassle, to some it will be to others no