Possible electrical problem?, PROBLEM HAS BEEN SOLVED!! Options

[jordisonjr]

Well for me it worked, not saying that its a 100% fix by any means, but I have not had any of the symptoms since. The only way to know for sure if its your dizzy is to take those resistance readings. But to make this easier, here is the text outta the guide.

DTC 12 - RPM SIGNAL (EXCEPT CALIF.)
The distributor assembly contains 3 pick-up coils. The "G" signal informs ECM of the standard crankshaft position. The "NE" signal informs ECM of the crankshaft position and engine speed.
If "NE" signal is not present to ECM within 2 seconds or more with engine cranking, check for open or short in the "G" or "NE" circuit, or for faulty distributor.
If "G" signal is not present from ECM for 3 seconds or more with engine speed of 600-4000 RPM, check for open or short in "STA" circuit or for a faulty ECM.
It also goes on to give a 3 step process on how to check this....
1.)Check resistance of each pickup coils in dizzy...if good go to step 2, if bad replace dizzy housing.
2.)Check for open or short in harness and connector between ECM and Dizzy. If good go to step 3, if bad repair or replace harness/connector
3.)Check air gap. If good check/replace ECM, if bad replace dizzy housing.
And here is a handy pic w/resistance readings


Hope this helps a bit

After checking the resistance in the NE and G circuit, how do i know if its good or bad. Would cold be considered good and hot bad?

[stephen_lee]

read the post you quoted completely. its in there

[SleekCelica]

I"m telling ya, those distributors rarely go bad in that way. Usually they leak oil, but it's going to be your ecu. If it's really intermittent, it is your ecu.

[stephen_lee]

i have a 5s auto ecm, and a 5s dizzy. if you want either or both PM me

[jordisonjr]

I"m telling ya, those distributors rarely go bad in that way. Usually they leak oil, but it's going to be your ecu. If it's really intermittent, it is your ecu.

So if its my ECM i basically Just have to replace it? What exacly is the ECM?
I called up my mechanic and explained the problem, and he said it my be the EGR, does that seem possible?

[Spider77]

Maybe, maybe not..........I just gave you the info regarding the CEL you popped.

[DEATH]

I"m telling ya, those distributors rarely go bad in that way. Usually they leak oil, but it's going to be your ecu. If it's really intermittent, it is your ecu.

So if its my ECM i basically Just have to replace it? What exacly is the ECM?
I called up my mechanic and explained the problem, and he said it my be the EGR, does that seem possible?

The EGR isn't gonna cause that. I 3rd the ECU thing - D-man had similar problems. Buy Stephen's ECU and be done with it.
The ECU is the onboard computer that controls your engine. It is located underneath and forward of the radio - easily accessed from the PS carpet. Just pull the carpet back and you will see a squarish silver box with "5S-FE" printed on it and 3 wire connectors with a sh!tton of wires coming out - that's it. Easily replaced in 15mins by any novice.

[jordisonjr]

Is the ECM and ECU the same thing?
I've come to the conclustion that this problem is over my head to diagnose, and the car is going in tomorrow to get a professional opinion.

I appreciate everyones input, and after hearing from the mechanic that if it was the distributor it wouldn't start(I don't know why I didn't realize that earlier) I'm kinda leaning towards the ECU as well.
THanks DEATH for the input. Ill contact Steph soon, if thats the probelm.

[jordisonjr]

Picked my car up, and the shop told me its my clutch.
I dunno how I didn't figure that out.
I was expecing it to rev a lot more when it slipped, not just like 100 or 200 rpm.
So it'll be winter here in about a month or so, so Im just gunna put the car away cause I can't really afford a new clutch, and it doesn't really make sense if its just gunna sit over winter anyways.

[Rook]

Picked my car up, and the shop told me its my clutch.
I dunno how I didn't figure that out.
I was expecing it to rev a lot more when it slipped, not just like 100 or 200 rpm.
So it'll be winter here in about a month or so, so Im just gunna put the car away cause I can't really afford a new clutch, and it doesn't really make sense if its just gunna sit over winter anyways.

Its your clutch?! are you freaking kidding me?! lol. UGH! I'm having the exact same stupid problem. for months now. Its driving me NUTS i wanna push the car over a cliff or pull out a gun and shoot the f*** out of it!!
So far I've replaced every part of the ignition system (dizzy, cap, rotor, plug wires, plugs, coil, igniter, condenser, and even the freaking battery!!!) and it also has a new clutch. cleaned out the throttle body. nothing. Intermittenly stumbles worse than yours i may add. Drives like if my girl was driving it (she doesn't know how to drive stick.) Oof. Had about 5 seasoned techs look at it. Three of them from work (i work at Toyota) WITH the freaking Toyota scan tool (TIS) and nothing. The three techs from work told me to swap the ECU's so i'm trying to find it. My entire dash and some of my center console is apart from looking for it today but i ran out of time at work. haha.

[bmj67]

ecu is on the floor behind the center console. just pull back the carpet in the pass side and you will see it

[jordisonjr]

Picked my car up, and the shop told me its my clutch.
I dunno how I didn't figure that out.
I was expecing it to rev a lot more when it slipped, not just like 100 or 200 rpm.
So it'll be winter here in about a month or so, so Im just gunna put the car away cause I can't really afford a new clutch, and it doesn't really make sense if its just gunna sit over winter anyways.

Its your clutch?! are you freaking kidding me?! lol. UGH! I'm having the exact same stupid problem. for months now. Its driving me NUTS i wanna push the car over a cliff or pull out a gun and shoot the f*** out of it!!
So far I've replaced every part of the ignition system (dizzy, cap, rotor, plug wires, plugs, coil, igniter, condenser, and even the freaking battery!!!) and it also has a new clutch. cleaned out the throttle body. nothing. Intermittenly stumbles worse than yours i may add. Drives like if my girl was driving it (she doesn't know how to drive stick.) Oof. Had about 5 seasoned techs look at it. Three of them from work (i work at Toyota) WITH the freaking Toyota scan tool (TIS) and nothing. The three techs from work told me to swap the ECU's so i'm trying to find it. My entire dash and some of my center console is apart from looking for it today but i ran out of time at work. haha.

Wow thats intense dude.
My cars put away for winter now and i believed it was a clutch.
But after hearing you just had yours replaced, makes me think twice.
If you change out your ECU and it fixes your problem you should definately let me know, cause then that might mean i don't need a clutch just yet which would be awesome.
I know mine was going, but it kinda started out of no where, so maybe its not the clutch, but who knows.
Anyways, could you let me know if you have the solution to the problem, cause that would save me a ton if i didn't have to do the clutch before i brought it out of storage haha.

[Rook]

of course of course. lol

I found the ECM today. Just as Death said (Thanks Death. lol) its very easily accessible behind the radio on the floor and easily changed out within 15 minutes by any novice (or rook such as myself ) lol. Got the part number and am searching for the computer now.

Went to ask at parts and ran into some info. There is a TSB out on ECM#89661-2D690. Something about fuel or something. Should've paid better attention sorry. lol. It should be replaced with ECM#89661-2D692 on 96-97 Toyota Celica and Camry models with a manual tranny. Idk anyway hopefully one of the techs has one laying around. Hear the shop foreman has a ton locked up in a cabinet at work. I'll let you know man. In the meanwhile I'll be searching

[mkernz22]

The ECU is the part that you are replacing, what the hell is an ECM? lol

[jordisonjr]

of course of course. lol

I found the ECM today. Just as Death said (Thanks Death. lol) its very easily accessible behind the radio on the floor and easily changed out within 15 minutes by any novice (or rook such as myself ) lol. Got the part number and am searching for the computer now.

Went to ask at parts and ran into some info. There is a TSB out on ECM#89661-2D690. Something about fuel or something. Should've paid better attention sorry. lol. It should be replaced with ECM#89661-2D692 on 96-97 Toyota Celica and Camry models with a manual tranny. Idk anyway hopefully one of the techs has one laying around. Hear the shop foreman has a ton locked up in a cabinet at work. I'll let you know man. In the meanwhile I'll be searching

Whats a TSB? and you're saying the ECU is supposed to be replaced in our car with one froma 96 - 97 camry? Could this be why our cars are acting so strange?

[jordisonjr]

Well for some reason the issue magically fixed itself over storage haha. No but seriously, I took the car out of storage and got the clutch fixed (which was slipping anyways) and have been driving it for about a month but the problem is back again.

Turns out it wasn't the clutch like the shop said.
So now I'm back to square one.
But I think I'm just going to bring the car to the stealership now, because I've tried testing the distributor with a multimeter, but couldn't figure it out.
And i've done a ton of searching thats come up unanswered.
Toyota wants 80 bucks to scan and diagnose the problem, which is actually cheaper than any of the other shops I called surprisingly.
And then I can decide from there what to do with the car.

[stephen_lee]

ecu or dizzy

[azian_advanced]

maybe i'm not thinking straight so correct me if i'm wrong but couldn't this be an air leak? not saying it's a permanent air leak like a hole in the hoses because otherwise that would cause a constant rev, but one of the valves could be malfunctioning (EGR valve, A/C VSV, etc.). since the engine is revving really high, i don't see how it would be a dizzy or ecu issue. only way to rev that high is if there is enough air being injested by the engine.



another guy (from mr2.com) had a similar issue with high idle and basically pulled off each hose from the intake manifold and capped it until he singled out the problem.

but since you had used TB cleaner which caused the high idle, i'd start with checking the EGR system. you may have cleared up a previous leak (carbon build-up) or destroyed the gaskets with the cleaner.

this is just how i would diagnose the problem..

[jordisonjr]

Azian, are you referring to the high idle(3000) that I just referred to in another thread that was caused by spraying the carb cleaner in?
If so, the idle has dropped back down and idles around 1000k.
But when this "odd reving" isue occurs, at idle, it will jump around a couple RPM(mayb 100 or so?) and when you pop the hood, you can see the motor moving around when the rpm drops, but when it is steady, the motor doesn't move at all(hopefully that makes sense).

So you think i should pull the vaccum lines off one by one, and cap it off, and if having one of the lines off and capped, the problem stops, then that hose probably has a hole in it? Someone earlier thought it may have been egr, but then someone else posted in this thread that it most likely isn't and that i shoudl be leaning towards the ECU or Dizzy like the CEL says.

[stephen_lee]

a hose leak wont really make an effect when your actually driving, esp since this is a 5s, and uses a MAP sensor.