Reffing an engine?, anyone done it? Options

[DST94]

I was looking into some engine swaps and have come up with a pretty great sounding swap. Ill be posting up after i finalize the plans but have a few questions about reffing an engine so i dont have to find my way around the smog. (cali regulations by the way)
The block will be the 5SFE.

Can i reff the 5SFE in a 94 ST? Yes? As long as the block is 94+?

Do the heads of the engine affect the reff success? Only if theres a VIN on the heads? Are there?

Does the Drivetrain affect the reff success?

How do i go about reffing if all this works out?

Any input would be really appreciated. . .

-DST 94

[SupraKid]

I was looking into some engine swaps and have come up with a pretty great sounding swap. Ill be posting up after i finalize the plans but have a few questions about reffing an engine so i dont have to find my way around the smog. (cali regulations by the way)
The block will be the 5SFE.

Can i reff the 5SFE in a 94 ST? Yes? As long as the block is 94+?
Yes,but it has to be 100% stock(egr,exhaust,intake,everything) if you want it to pass
Do the heads of the engine affect the reff success? Only if there's a VIN on the heads? Are there?
No the VIN is on the block..But dont expect a 5sgte to pass Smog OR visual test. As the 5sgte was never offered in any CA spec car
Does the Drive train affect the reff success?
Yes, visual inspection
How do i go about reffing if all this works out?

Any input would be really appreciated. . .

-DST 94

You cant run a awd 5sgte 100% legally in California. And saying your car is bright green with a body kit, dont expect cops not to pull you over. And when they pop the hood they will immediately know its not the proper engine.

Take some time and actually read this:
http://www.bar.ca.gov/80_BARResources/ftp/...l%2012-2009.pdf

Also search and read all over this site:
http://www.bar.ca.gov/80_BARResources/07_A...Guidelines.html

This post has been edited by SupraKid: Jan 10, 2011 - 2:30 AM

[DST94]

I was looking into some engine swaps and have come up with a pretty great sounding swap. Ill be posting up after i finalize the plans but have a few questions about reffing an engine so i dont have to find my way around the smog. (cali regulations by the way)
The block will be the 5SFE.

Can i reff the 5SFE in a 94 ST? Yes? As long as the block is 94+?
Yes,but it has to be 100% stock(egr,exhaust,intake,everything) if you want it to pass
Do the heads of the engine affect the reff success? Only if there's a VIN on the heads? Are there?
No the VIN is on the block..But dont expect a 5sgte to pass Smog OR visual test. As the 5sgte was never offered in any CA spec car
Does the Drive train affect the reff success?
Yes, visual inspection
How do i go about reffing if all this works out?

Any input would be really appreciated. . .

-DST 94

You cant run a awd 5sgte 100% legally in California. And saying your car is bright green with a body kit, dont expect cops not to pull you over. And when they pop the hood they will immediately know its not the proper engine.

Take some time and actually read this:
http://www.bar.ca.gov/80_BARResources/ftp/...l%2012-2009.pdf

Also search and read all over this site:
http://www.bar.ca.gov/80_BARResources/07_A...Guidelines.html

Lol. Oceanside cops aren't that bad. But yea, smog is the big thing, thanks for the resources ill read up on it.


The 5SFE was never offered in CA ever? MR2? GT Celica? really?

[richee3]

Yes, the 5S was offered in California in practically every single 90's model four cylinder Camry you see. Andrew said the 5S-GTE engine, which is the 5S block with a 3S-GTE head on it. That is what is illegal in California.

I'm a bit confused by this thread. You said you're looking into engine swaps, then asked about smog with a 5S-FE in a 1994 Celica ST. The ST has a 7A-FE engine in it, not a 5S-FE. So you're looking at swapping a 5S-FE into your ST?

[SupraKid]

Yes, the 5S was offered in California in practically every single 90's model four cylinder Camry you see. Andrew said the 5S-GTE engine, which is the 5S block with a 3S-GTE head on it. That is what is illegal in California.

I'm a bit confused by this thread. You said you're looking into engine swaps, then asked about smog with a 5S-FE in a 1994 Celica ST. The ST has a 7A-FE engine in it, not a 5S-FE. So you're looking at swapping a 5S-FE into your ST?

Exactly, i think what he is trying to do is swap and ref the stock 5sfe, then gte it and if he gets pulled over the certificate will say its swapped legally. But if the cop knows ANYTHING(and most LA cops do) they will know 5sfe contains no T and if your engine is turboed they will immediately know. Also the AWD aspect is another HUGE component.

Not to mention youll have to smog every year, and now that LA has the mobile smog units i REALLY doubt many shops will look the other way anymore as they can lose they're license.

This post has been edited by SupraKid: Jan 10, 2011 - 2:59 AM

[DST94]

I'm a bit confused by this thread. You said you're looking into engine swaps, then asked about smog with a 5S-FE in a 1994 Celica ST. The ST has a 7A-FE engine in it, not a 5S-FE. So you're looking at swapping a 5S-FE into your ST?

Yea, im looking to swap, but i want to find a way to make it as legal as possible. So i figure i go to an engine that has come in cars legal in Cali, 5SFE with 3SGTE Head would put out big numbers (according to my research) so im looking to see how hard it would be to reff that engine in my celica.

Andrew- I dont live in LA, i dont know how big of a difference that will make, but i wont be seeing any LAPD anytime soon. Im pretty far south from it actually. And whats wrong with turboing? does that effect the ref? i thought that you could turbo an engine, and that it wasnt an illegal mod?

[Smaay]

ok here is the deal. you can do any swap as long as the engine comes from a newer car and has the same family engine. AWD has nothing to do with refree, if you can convert it, then go for it. Turbo has nothing to do with it. The only thing that matters is the emisions system. as long as all the CATs are in the exhaust and the EGR system is installed and working, then you will be good to go.

there are NO VIN numbers on the head only on the block. and new blocks from toyota dont have VIN numbers so you could say its a full up 3S-GTE. I believe the 5S stamp on the block is covered by the transmission.

here is my beef, if you are swapping in a 5S-FE, i dont see a point of refereeing it. its a stock engine for that car so any inspector is not going to question it. I just swapped a 2ZZ into a GT 7th gen and it looks 100% stock.

This post has been edited by Smaay: Jan 10, 2011 - 1:57 PM

[DST94]

Hey, I love everthing you just said, but do you have any sources I can look at?i just need to confirm all that you know?

[mkernz22]

Hey, I love everthing you just said, but do you have any sources I can look at?i just need to confirm all that you know?

he's been on the site since '03 man, he knows what he's talking about.

[SupraKid]

Jeff, a 5sgte even with cats and egr is NEVER going to meet the 5sfe smog requirements. As im sure you know, but for others ill say it. To run a 5sgte you obviously need to upgrade the entire fuel system and tune it, and when tuning the tuner will be looking for the best power #s and less wear on the engine, not the o2 output. Your gonna be dumping A LOT more gas into the engine and in turn get out a crap load more power. IF you think about its really simple. To get more power you add more fuel, when more fuel is added more exhaust gases are produced.

I don't have any written proof about the AWD swap, but when i went to clear a fix it ticket i asked a CHP officer if it was legal to change the drive wheels. They said if the car was never offered in CA with that type of drivetrain, its illegal. He coulda just been BSing but i dont really wanna test that.

http://www.bar.ca.gov/80_BARResources/07_A...Guidelines.html :
Smog Inspection

These vehicles must pass a complete smog inspection (visual, functional, and tailpipe).

This post has been edited by SupraKid: Jan 10, 2011 - 9:59 PM

[Greyform]

alas my dreams of having a 3SGTE swapped into my car (as unrealilstic as it sounds) are now shattered...thanks guys

[DEATH]

In all honesty I can say - owning a GT2 is worth moving out of that Nazi country

[mkernz22]

alas my dreams of having a 3SGTE swapped into my car (as unrealilstic as it sounds) are now shattered...thanks guys

We're just helping you out man, move out of cali if you want do a swap lol

[dabazied]

Or get friends in the right places, and do what others in Cali have done before, plenty of times. Yet, its not recommended trying to go by the loopholes.

[Greyform]

lol im gonna be callin cali my home for quite awhile, eventually ill probably just try to make my 7A as good as it can get, or maybe swap in a 97 GT engine if that would work...

[Smaay]

i disagree. i you can get a 3S-GTE certified because it was offered in CA. remember the MR2's got them untill what 95? so there is your justification

[Greyform]

yeah but my ST is a 97 so a 95 engine cant legally be swapped in. maybe ill just get my girl to by a 95 gt and save for a swap then steal her car LOL

[dabazied]

If you really wanna swap her, go with a 4a, made in usa and past 97. Or big boy it with a 3mfze 6cylinder swap. Those two would be the easiest to pass in cali legally.

[Greyform]

ok cool, ill keep that in mind for the future thanks!

[SupraKid]

Second gen 3sgtes were legal in CA..i cant think of any cars in which the 3rd gen 3sgte was offered in CA. And as second gens are 90-93..and our cars are 94+ it is illegal.

This post has been edited by SupraKid: Jan 11, 2011 - 7:17 PM