Richee3's Progress thread., Wilwood BBK installed. Options

[njccmd2002]

easy bro, go to the beams for sale section, and see if someone is selling the complete harness of a celica beams. Congrats on the engine

[Stambo]

dude sand blast that headed and either heat wrap it or coat it it'll look sick!

[richee3]

Noberto- I'm going to see what I can find. I'm probably going to start buying stuff left and right tomorrow, so anything I don't currently have, I'll be getting tomorrow or very soon.

Tom- I figured I would just powdercoat the heat shield and call it a day. Since the motor has a factory header and I plan on using my factory exhaust, I'm going to have a shop custom fab me a piece to mount to my 2 pipes on the header and the single pipe for my exhaust. So I'm probably not doing anything fancy with the header, just keeping it hidden.

This post has been edited by richee3: Apr 30, 2011 - 4:58 PM

[njccmd2002]

get a redtop header, youll gain more hp, the blacktop header is a bit more restrictive...

[SupraKid]

get a redtop header, youll gain more hp, the greytop header is a bit more restrictive...

Nice thread danny boy, good to see someone doing something different than just the 3sgte.

[richee3]

Noberto- I'm not going for huge power and I'm not trying to spend a fortune, so I'm just sticking with the Greytop header. Like I said, I'm just going to have an exhaust shop fab up something to mount to the header and my factory exhaust.

Andrew- Thanks. I'll eventually get a 3S-GTE, but for now I'm just out to prove that there are viable swaps beyond the usual 3S-GTE and the 3S-GE Redtop. While this swap is similar to the Redtop, it's much cheaper and therefore much more attainable option for those on a budget. I'll probably pull it out and go for the 3S-GTE a year from now.

Update: I pulled the automatic transmission off of the motor today and moved the motor out of the way so we can park the truck in the garage again. I have to say, the Greytop is much lighter than a 5S-FE. Moving the 5S by hand is a pain in the a** but moving the 3S-GE hardly took any effort at all.

The melted plug, as I suspected, is for the MAF.

Now for what seems like my only big problem with this swap... I STILL can't find where that damn fusebox should go. There's simply nowhere on the harness for it. It appears that there was never any connection to any fusebox in the wiring harness. The harness is all connected to the motor as it should be then has the igniter plug then goes inside the car where it hooks up to the ECU. So... Swap gurus, any suggestions?

This post has been edited by richee3: Aug 14, 2011 - 5:50 PM

[njccmd2002]

for the answers to those questions we have to refer to the engine bay of the caldina or the beams, depending where the engine came from, do you have any idea?

That is not a celica engine, therefore the fusebox will be in a different location, even on a different harness, maybe even a separate one, like on a different plug?

[richee3]

It came from a Caldina. I've been hitting the BEAMS forums hard to find any information I can and I'm not having any luck. Seeing pictures of other Greytops, mine is not the only one like this. But seeing pictures of the Rav4 and Caldina engine bays, the fusebox is in the same place. So clearly, it's on a different harness. I have a copy of the Greytop wiring harness so I'll have to find what I can on that. I think you're right though, I think the fusebox is on a different harness.

[Batman722]

why buy a greytop with a messed up harness and less than 180hp ?
was it a good deal ?

[bloodMoney]

Originality.

These are just a few small hiccups at the very start of this project... He's got a DD, so there's nothing but time

[SupraKid]

why buy a greytop with a messed up harness and less than 180hp ?
was it a good deal ?

Dustin do you have any evidence to support that the Redtop and Greytop are different in any other ways than the exhaust system and valve cover color? If so id like to see it, as everything ive read/heard has said they are the same.

This post has been edited by SupraKid: May 2, 2011 - 6:15 PM

[njccmd2002]

why buy a greytop with a messed up harness and less than 180hp ?
was it a good deal ?

Dustin do you have any evidence to support that the Redtop and Greytop are different in any other ways than the exhaust system and valve cover color? If so id like to see it, as everything ive read/heard has said they are the same.

mr2.com/beamsownersgroup...

[Batman722]

evidence ? I researched it, that's all.
I thought about putting a greytop in my Rav because they came in the Ravs overseas.

http://beams-redtop.com/index.htm has some good info about them.
or try the forum that Noberto linked up http://www.mr2.com/forums/beams-owners-group/

[SupraKid]

Yes i was all over both a sites, and i never really found a 100% clear answer that showed any difference between the two? Could you share the info on this site so all can see?I'm not doubting you by any means id just also like to know myself.

[Batman722]

I never said they were different.

the motor internals are the same, that's not the issue for me.
The greytop ecu is de-tuned to a lower hp than the redtop, that's my first issue.

for a discussion about how to bring the greytop up to the redtop's specs here

my issues are the ecu, the harness, and the lack of the lsd tranny.
I bought a Celica 98 Redtop w/lsd tranny for $1654 shipped, I think I got a good deal, it just took patience to find it.

With the grey you need a tranny/flywheel, a lot more harness to rewire (the celica red is 99% plug and play), and to get it to be as fast as a red it's gonna take some type of piggyback or full for the ecu.

doing something different is ok if you know 100% what you're doing. Having the time, patience, and money is not easy for people to come by with a different motor swap.

now back on topic, if the grey top was a good deal (first thing I asked), you have a tranny, you're a wiring guy so you can do the harness yourself, and have the means to get the potential out of the motor (at least up to red's specs), then be different. If I had those things, I would.

[richee3]

You're absolutely right, Dustin. Diving into a new and unknown swap is never a good idea unless you are fully prepared and have the knowledge and experience to overcome any obstacles you might run into. Yes, I did get a good deal on the motor at $1,250. All of the 5S-FE's I've been able to find have been priced very close to that so I couldn't fathom why I'd buy a 135 hp 5S when I could get the 187 hp Greytop.

Now, as you said, the Redtop from the Celica is virtually plug and play. Splice 4 wires if you don't care about cruise control or your airbag light. I expected this motor to be similar to that and I knew before I bought it that it didn't come with the fusebox. I expected to be able to splice my old fusebox into the Greytop's harness. However, I've discovered that the Greytop clearly has the fusebox on a different harness. I've browsed the MR2 Beams Owner's Group and downloaded the Greytop wiring diagram and I'm going to try to figure out a way to make this motor work. However, if it simply isn't reasonable, I'm not opposed to selling it and buying a 3S-GTE. I'm not going to screw around and not finish this car. I'd like to see it running again within the next 30 days. If I get in over my head but Manny or Tweak feel like they can finish it, I'm not opposed to sending the car their way.

I will be using my S54 so the transmission is out of the way. I'm not worried about bringing the Greytop up to Redtop specs. I'm not trying to build the world's fastest car, just something slightly quicker than a 5S. I'm not worried about LSD either, unless I scrap this swap and get a 3S-GTE. As I said, I'm only playing with this motor for 30 days. If I haven't found a reasonable way to swap it in before then, it's going back on Ebay.

[Batman722]

you got a good deal.

For some reason I didn't think you had a GT. The tranny, mounts, cables, ect you already have, that's good.
pull the 5s, send the grey and 5s harness to tweek, get a clutch/flywheel, do some maintenance if you have the time & $, put everything together, put it in the bay and drive it.
Do a full 2.5" exhaust from the header back and it should be a blast to drive.

[richee3]

I've decided to go a different route. I spent a couple of hours on the Beams Owners Group yesterday. Those guys have been hooking the Greytop ECU up to the Redtop for a while and one guy even took both ECU's and tested them and they are exactly the same ECU. Not detuned. The difference is in the header. The Greytop header is more restrictive and (allegedly) has a cat between the head and the header. Anyway, once again I found several posts on the forums that confirm that the swap for the Greytop is exactly the same as the Redtop swap, but this time I noticed one critical difference that I didn't catch the first time- nobody has actually bought and swapped a Greytop over there. They've mounted the Blacktop transverse several times, but never actually swapped a Gretyop. Those posts are pure speculation. And knowing what I know now about the Greytop having the same internals and ECU, I'm speculating that I could buy a Redtop harness and put that on my Greytop and make this work. However, I've gone a different route. I've just ordered a Redtop with an intact wiring harness but no trans or ECU. I have my S54 and the ECU from my Greytop will work. I've now gone well over what I originally intended to spend, but I've still spent a fair price for a good condition Redtop, and because I have the Greytop here, I have a complete parts motor. The way I see it, I now have a Redtop, 99% plug and play swap, 10-20 hp more than I had originally planned, and a spare motor.

I might test my theory later about the Redtop harness on the Greytop. If that works, I'll drop it into the girlfriend's Celica. Twin BEAMS ftw.

Now to head over to the BEAMS owners group and show them that this won't work the same as the Redtop... I should probably put my flame suit on and document my wiring harness 200% before telling these guys that they assumed incorrectly.

[bloodMoney]

Woah. Wow.

Do me a favor, since you are just buying motors left and right, grab me one too? I don't care which one, just something with more guts.... lmao j/k

Again, let me know when and I'll be there. (June is probably better for me....)

[Batman722]

I hope you are right and I am wrong.

So you're grey is from a Caldina right ? yours is an auto, were they all autos ? I know the Rav greys were all autos, I wonder if the part #s are the same.