3SGE Beams powered Celica, Her replacement has arrived Options

[S8S8]

Thanks for the tips and comments. I knew the Beams wasn't going to be a rocket ship, but I did expect a 50% increase in power to be more noticeable.

The engine revs nice and freely, and it has no problems getting to 7,000rpm pretty quickly, but it just doesn't feel as good as it should. Down low the engine is just as I expected (much the same as the 5SFE) but up high it just seems to rev without delivering a whole lot. I've owned two 4AGE powered cars, and both seemed to pull much harder in the high rev range. I would expect the Beams to behave similarly, but with even more up high thanks to the VVT-i.

Is there any way to check if the VVT-i is activating properly?

Anyway, I'll follow Bonzai's tips and get the car on a dyno. That should answer the question on whether my car is down on power or if I was just expecting too much!

[delusionz]

waaaaaaaaaBWARRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR

[BonzaiCelica]

the compression for each cylinder should be identical. If one of your cylinders is not the same as the others, the range should only be off by 8 psi at most. That was the case for one of my cylinders

[S8S8]

I took the car out again last night, and I must say it's starting to feel a lot better. Maybe not quite up to expectations, but enough to keep me satisfied. I'll be filling her up with some high octane fuel today, so hopefully that will give the little extra that I'm looking for.

waaaaaaaaaBWARRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR

Haha! Should it really be noticeable though? I don't feel anything different through the rev range, other than that she pulls a bit harder past 5,000rpm or so.

Is there a more technical way to check if the VVT-i is operating properly?

Also booked her in for some new tyres today, just the same 225/40/18 that she currently wears.

This post has been edited by S8S8: May 25, 2011 - 8:37 PM

[SwissFerdi]

^ You're rocking 18's, ever think that your wheels are quite heavy and therefore holding acceleration back?

[BonzaiCelica]

^ You're rocking 18's, ever think that your wheels are quite heavy and therefore holding acceleration back?

I agree, that since 7th gen celica gt-s wheels weigh in at 19 pounds the same weight must of been applied for the beams rims that are 15x7, 5 spoke white on all SS-III Celica. My guess is that the yes the weight of your current 18 inch rims are quite heavy. My guess is that your rims weigh in at 24 pounds. The current motegi ff7 16 inch rims that I have only weigh 19 pounds. Yet another factor to take into consideration.

[S8S8]

Yeah, but I had the same wheels with the 5SFE, so I should still feel the 50% power increase regardless. Plus, when I originally had the wheels fitted the car certainly didn't feel any slower. So on that basis, I'm discounting the wheels as being a major issue.

[delusionz]

I agree, so long as the rolling diameter is within tollerance levels (+/- 3%) of factory fitment (ie, 1 inch up, 5% less sidewall) then his wheels shouldn't really be slowing him down, even the worst chrome wheel is still designed to be a car wheel, not a boat anchor. the cars are heavy as is, changes like that are less proportionate to Celicas as they are to sub-1000kg rice rockets.

Like for example removing 100kg from a Celica would do more for a Celica than it would for a petrol tanker if you removed 100kgs from it (exaggerated to make the point)

Let us know how you get along with high octane, as these engines run on 100 RON in Japan, anything less will start to trip the knock sensor and the car will pull timing when you start to put your foot down. It will feel like a 5S if it starts pulling timing. You'll notice it in load points above 2500rpm and half throttle, when I had 3S-GE I always noted the difference between 91 and 95 to be great throughout the entire rev range, and the same difference again in the upper half of the rev range between 95 and 98 octanes.

[al94st]

I agree, so long as the rolling diameter is within tollerance levels (+/- 3%) of factory fitment (ie, 1 inch up, 5% less sidewall) then his wheels shouldn't really be slowing him down, even the worst chrome wheel is still designed to be a car wheel, not a boat anchor. the cars are heavy as is, changes like that are less proportionate to Celicas as they are to sub-1000kg rice rockets.

Like for example removing 100kg from a Celica would do more for a Celica than it would for a petrol tanker if you removed 100kgs from it (exaggerated to make the point)

Let us know how you get along with high octane, as these engines run on 100 RON in Japan, anything less will start to trip the knock sensor and the car will pull timing when you start to put your foot down. It will feel like a 5S if it starts pulling timing. You'll notice it in load points above 2500rpm and half throttle, when I had 3S-GE I always noted the difference between 91 and 95 to be great throughout the entire rev range, and the same difference again in the upper half of the rev range between 95 and 98 octanes.

Not necessarily true, the Celica doesn't have that much power so removing 100kg should make a fair bit of difference. I can feel a difference between 3/4 tank and 1/4 tank,b/c my 7a is a turd. But regardless, they're talking about rotational mass, which makes a much bigger difference than static. If he were to put some steelies on the car it would probably feel a sh** ton faster. Just my .02, it's irrelevant since he had the wheels before, but it would make a difference.

[S8S8]

Project update

Time for a project update and pics.

Beams engine



The engine is in and has been back on the road for about a week now. There were no major dramas with the instal, just frustrating little things along the way.

I swapped over the entire front end, including the engine, gearbox, axles, brakes, power steering rack, subframe, radiator, as well as the engine and front chasis looms.

Maintenance including replacing the clutch, waterpump, thermostat, oil filter and driveshaft seal. The engine and gearbox oil were both replaced.

The finishing touch was a new 2.25 inch exhaust with a high flow cat and straight through muffler.

SS-II brakes

The SS-II came with the same size rotors, but with twin piston calipers. The swap was basically bolt-on, but I had to use the brake hoses from the SS-II as the standard ones were too short. I also had to change one of the brake lines as the thread was stripped. It would have been much easier if I'd have done this whilst the engine was still out!

The new brakes don't feel any different on the street, but hopefully on the track they'll give a little something extra.

Auto climate control

This was one of the most painful jobs of the whole project. It wasn't difficult since everything just bolted in, but I had to strip the interior completely bare since the auto climate control uses different boxes to the standard Celica air con. This also meant changing both interior looms as well as the front chasis loom which included another sensor. Stripping the interior down to the firewall is an awful job to do!

I haven't had the gas recharged yet, so I can't confirm whether the air will work, but I can't forsee any problems. The system is working fine on the heater side (which is great since it's almost winter here in Australia) and the temperate changes with the temperate knob, as it should do.

Interior



Changes to the interior include the auto climate control, SS-II white face guage cluster and three spoke leather wheel. The airbag had gone off, but I ordered a new center on ebay which bolted straight in, and I'm happy to report that I had no issues with the airbag light. Because I'm using a 6th gen three spoke wheel and centre I didn't have to adapt any of the wiring or plugs like we have to with 7th gen wheels.

I also had a 7th gen short shift kit to go in, but I've since found that the JDM and Aussie Celicas use a slightly different setup to the USDM models, so I can't use the kit unfortauntely. The shift in this car isn't that long anyway, so I'm not too bothered.

Exterior



During the engine conversion I also ordered some JDM tails which make a nice improvment to the back. I also got rid of the badges which I'd been wanting to do for years.

I also picked up a GT4 bonnet and front bumper, but these will be sitting in the shed for a while until I'm ready to have them painted and fitted.

Updated car specs

• 1994 Celica ZR
• 3SGE Beams VVT-i
• 2.25" exhaust
• SS-II twin piston calipers
• Lowered sports springs
• 18" rims with 225/40/18 tyres
• Auto climate control
• Leather 3 spoke wheel
• SS-II white face guages
• JDM tail lights

Future plans

• GT4 front end (have the parts, just need paint)
• Coilovers (probably BC Racing)
• Front & rear strut braces
• Rear sway bar
• New front seats (racing buckets)

And that will probably be it. The only other mod I can imagine down the track is a 3SGTE conversion if I feel the need for more power.

Here's a few more pics, which thankfully are from a proper camera for the first time rather than the crap iPhone camera!

[enderswift]

nice job man. Now tell us how it feels to drive

[delusionz]

If he were to put some steelies on the car it would probably feel a sh** ton faster.

If he were to put steelies on there then the car would have massive torque steer and traction issues thus negativing any lightweight gains.

It's not a 7a, when you have torque then extra weight slows it down less. Eg he doesn't need to put his foot to the floor to cart around passengers like you would.

[S8S8]

Let us know how you get along with high octane, as these engines run on 100 RON in Japan, anything less will start to trip the knock sensor and the car will pull timing when you start to put your foot down. It will feel like a 5S if it starts pulling timing. You'll notice it in load points above 2500rpm and half throttle, when I had 3S-GE I always noted the difference between 91 and 95 to be great throughout the entire rev range, and the same difference again in the upper half of the rev range between 95 and 98 octanes.

I've filled the tank with 98 octane plus a bottle of 2.5 octane booster, so I should be sitting around 100 now. I haven't really driven it over 4,000rpm since then, so I can't say if it's made any noticable difference. I'm going for a longer drive today were I can get stuck into it a bit more.

If he were to put some steelies on the car it would probably feel a sh** ton faster. Just my .02, it's irrelevant since he had the wheels before, but it would make a difference.

I highly doubt it to be honest. Maybe on a super light weight car when comparing lap times at the track, but I doubt the average person would feel any difference on the street. When I switched from the standard 15" alloys to the current 18"s I felt no difference, so I wouldn't expect anything different if I switched back. Not on the street anyway.

nice job man. Now tell us how it feels to drive

Thanks man, I appreciate it. The car feels good, but I think my expectations of the Beams were a little high. I need to take it for a run through the mountains or on the track to really get a feel for how much better it is.

But overall I'm pretty happy with the result, and it's still way cheaper than if I'd have bought something newer of similar spec. In the back of my mind I'm still wishing that I went 3SGTE instead, but I'm sure the Beams will grow on me as I learn how to get the most out of it.

If he were to put steelies on there then the car would have massive torque steer and traction issues thus negativing any lightweight gains.

Yeah traction would be an issue. Even with the old 225 tyres I was getting plenty of wheel spin. The new stickier 225s are much better though. If I went back to 185s or similar I think I'd be struggling big time!

In other news, I just bought a GT4 rear strut brace and plastic covers on ebay for $150 shipped. I had priced the same parts new from Toyota and it was about twice the price!

[BonzaiCelica]

Thise octNe boosters are marketing scams they might raise ur octane to 1 point. Make sure u buy some fuel injector cleaner or if i was u i wud of got my injectors cleaned n tested by a shop. 98 ron will do just fine.

[delusionz]

Yeah 98 is perfect, even 95. Just not 91 (this is what Americans call 87 or something), which is what you would have been running for 5S-FE

[BonzaiCelica]

Ur wrong 91 octane equals to 95 ron. In the us we measure the amount that fuel reacts by octane as to europe n japan use ron.

95 ron is not recommended for beams motor only 98 ron and even better 100 ron

[delusionz]

Do you read before you correct? In this part of the world we use RON (Australia and NZ), 91ron does not = 95ron. 95 ron is sold at some petrol stations as premium, while others carry 98ron as premium. All gas stations carry 91ron as regular unleaded. In this part of the world (AUDM, NZDM, even JDM) Toyota FE engines run on 91ron which is what he would have been using with the 5S-FE.

It is perfectly fine to use a 3S-GE (Any gen) whether ACIS, Redtop Beams, or Altezza Blacktop Beams in areas that only carry 95ron, but as I mentioned theres still a little more performance to gain by filling up at a petrol station that sells 98ron.

Probably similar in Australia, but we have in NZ

Shell V-Power - 95 octane
Caltex Techron - 95 octane
BP Ultimate - 98 octane
Mobil 8000 - 98 octane

here we all drive JDM Japanese used imports, depending on the area you're in, you won't always get a choice of stopping at a petrol station with 98, sometimes you have to settle for 95. It's still supposed to be alot more powerful running a Beams on 95 than a 5S-FE.

Our engines have things called knock sensors for a reason...

[BonzaiCelica]

Ur wrong 91 octane equals to 95 ron. In the us we measure the amount that fuel reacts by octane as to europe n japan use ron.

95 ron is not recommended for beams motor only 98 ron and even better 100 ron

wow dude no no no, did you read correctly???? I said 91 OCTANE!!! not 91 ron duhh

and yes I am well aware as I previously stated that all other countries besides the USA, uses ron as their anti-knock index!!! ie europe, japan, australia, russia and so on.... yes i'm aware of the so called knock sensor on our engines thank u.

on second thought I didn't fully acknowledge your comment but I am in no way wrong in what I said. yes 87 octane does equal 91 ron which is something you do not want to put in any 3sge engine, unless you plan on blowing it up.

This post has been edited by BonzaiCelica: May 29, 2011 - 10:41 PM

[S8S8]

Well, whatever measure they use here in Australia I've been using the 98 stuff. I was using the 95 with my 5SFE anyway, not the cheap 91 stuff. I've also run some injector cleaner through as suggested.

After two weeks with the car back on the road I am reasonably satisfied. The power is still below expectations, but I'm having fun with it.

One thing I have definitely noticed is the improved fuel economy. With the old 5SFE I would struggle to get 500km out of a tank, but with the new engine I'm not even two thirds through the tank and I've already done 450km. And I haven't exactly been driving in a fuel efficient manner if you know what I mean!

But I'd give up the fuel economy for more power....

I do have a problem with the car though. It's making a strange creaking noise from the front end at low speed. I've started a new topic in the suspension section here. I've been told it could be the tie rod ends. I swapped these over with the rest of the front end from the donor car, so I'll fit some new ones and see if that fixes the problem.

[TRD-Corolla]

The power is still below expectations

Out of curiousity, have you had the chance to check the VVTI? Is it working correctly?

This post has been edited by TRD-Corolla: Jun 5, 2011 - 10:45 PM