Clutch Master Cylinder, Which one is it? Options

[trdproven]

yea bleed until the slave stops like hes spitting while talking.

[BonzaiCelica]

yea bleed until the slave stops like hes spitting while talking.

I did this 8 months ago. so I have to do this every 6 month or so in order to make sure everything working fine???

[trdproven]

naw hydraulics is a closed system, you only need to do it once. if you are doing this more often, you have a bad cylinder somewhere or you have a leak somewhere or, your fluid for some reason is getting hella moisture that it gets contaminated and acts like a sinking pedal. Does your fluid look dark, thats a sign a bad seal, if its orangey thats a sign of too much moisture.

This post has been edited by trdproven: Apr 12, 2012 - 6:21 AM

[BonzaiCelica]

naw hydraulics is a closed system, you only need to do it once. if you are doing this more often, you have a bad cylinder somewhere or you have a leak somewhere or, your fluid for some reason is getting hella moisture that it gets contaminated and acts like a sinking pedal. Does your fluid look dark, that's a sign a bad seal, if its orangey that's a sign of too much moisture.

yes it dirty and black. I thought that was because of me burning the clutch (which I almost never do). Its just a bit tricky getting out of first gear, I thought black stuff in the clutch master cylinder was normal. also here's a video if this helps. on t he 4th pump I have my brother hold the clutch down and the valve returns back almost all the way...



This post has been edited by BonzaiCelica: Sep 1, 2012 - 12:25 AM

[trdproven]

for example if you pump, does that slave rod move? if not look if the master is rising in fluid, thats a sign of a bad master, sometimes they overflow. ive seen bad masters pedal feel weak but it comes back up. black color is from the seals that went bad and dirties the fluid. try pulling back that slave boot and pump to see if it leaks. Usually sinking pedal is a bad slave or air or leak. i have a feeling its the slave, again try pulling back that boot cover off the slave and have someone pumping and see if it leaks from there. if the rod is returning it sounds that the slave cannot hold pressure and that black fluid is the seals that wore out and its leaking from that area. if it was the master that rod pretty much wont move at all cus the master creates the pressure so if the master was broken it won't create pressure for the slave to push.

This post has been edited by trdproven: Apr 18, 2012 - 2:38 AM

[rave2n]

Yea you got a leak after looking at that video.

Could be leaking within the slave, master, or one of your lines.

I would start with the slave, its a 15 dollar part at autozone, change it out..see what happens. Or check for some obvious fluid loss around all the soft and hard lines.

This post has been edited by rave2n: Apr 18, 2012 - 10:47 AM

[BonzaiCelica]

wow awesome. thanks much for the help. Luckily I still have the clutch slave cylinder that came with the original beams swap. I'll try that and if not take a look around for the leakage. I thought if you pull back the boot on the slave cylinder you will rip it and it won't stay in place any longer???

[rave2n]

wow awesome. thanks much for the help. Luckily I still have the clutch slave cylinder that came with the original beams swap. I'll try that and if not take a look around for the leakage. I thought if you pull back the boot on the slave cylinder you will rip it and it won't stay in place any longer???

Nah, its just rubber, you can push it back into place.

[Special_Edy]

wow awesome. thanks much for the help. Luckily I still have the clutch slave cylinder that came with the original beams swap. I'll try that and if not take a look around for the leakage. I thought if you pull back the boot on the slave cylinder you will rip it and it won't stay in place any longer???

Naw the boot slips over an indention on the slave cylinder housing and just slides over the rod that comes out of the slave cylinder and pushes the clutch fork. You can gently pull it off by hand and even go so far as to use a screwdriver to push the clutch fork away to give you enough room to finagle(is that a word?) the boot off the end of the rod.

I imagine if it has a leak though that the boot will be filled with brake fluid. Just wiggling it off the slave cylinder housing will make it real obvious whether or not its full of brake fluid

This post has been edited by Special_Edy: Apr 18, 2012 - 2:05 PM

[trdproven]

the boot is just like any other rubber cover on your car, like a cv boot, shock boot, or wtvr but the indention is like the guys mentioned where it comes off and goes back on to lock. yea the boot would be full of oil if it has been going on for a while.

This post has been edited by trdproven: Apr 18, 2012 - 7:03 PM

[BonzaiCelica]

This slave cylinder came with original tranny that came with the beams, so u see the pin in perfect condition. Is the first one bad??!

This post has been edited by BonzaiCelica: Sep 1, 2012 - 12:26 AM

[trdproven]

there would be a lot of brake fluid and create a metal rust mess inside there. thats the bad seal that made your fluid dirty.

[BonzaiCelica]

This was the condition from the first slave cylinder.




So then today i reinstalled the slave cylinder that came from the beams swap it looked brand new. I installed it and then pumped/bled (the clutch pedal atleast 25 times, while bleeder valve on slave was open n another person pumped the peddle) about 8 oz of brake fluid thru the lines to clear the air bubbles. Im still getting the sticky clutch and there were still some small air bubbles in the system. What am i doing wrong???!

Shud i just say the hell with it n buy the $15 plus tax already built duralast brand slave cylinder from my local car store?

This post has been edited by BonzaiCelica: Sep 1, 2012 - 12:26 AM

[trdproven]

you need to close the bleeder, pump 3 times, hold pedal, release bleeder (keeping the pedal down), look if theres air, close bleeder and then you can restart the pump process (repeat). i usually go pump 3 times an interval, im scared of burning it out. once the fluid is strong and direct stream with no air (stops spitting), youre done.

keep repeating till the air pffft is gone and is solid liquid.

the only way you can leave the bleeder open and bleed is if you are doing a hose and reservoir bleed. this hose is connected tight to the bleeder, it goes into a bottle container with a good amount of brake fluid in the bottle. you put some fluid in the bottom so that it wont suck back air. you keep pumping until the air bubbles are gone.

or third you can get an brake vacuum pump kit.

did you do either of the first two? sounds like you kept the bleeder open the whole time, by doing that, you let air back in. you need to do one of the two above. the third one needs the tool to do it, which you dont really need.

This post has been edited by trdproven: Apr 23, 2012 - 3:17 AM

[BonzaiCelica]

http://www.wikihow.com/Bleed-a-Slave-Cylinder

^^^ oh ok!!,(let me know if I'm wrong) here's what I understood. there are three process's to go about getting air out of the slave cylinder as follows :

First Process is you need to close the bleeder, pump 3 times, hold pedal, release bleeder (keeping the pedal down), look if there is air, close bleeder and then you can restart the pump process (repeat). i usually go pump 3 times an interval, I'm scared of burning it out. once the fluid is strong and direct stream with no air (stops spitting), your are done.

Second Process : I do have a vaccuum pump kit, which means I can do it on my own. I just need someone to pump the clutch pedal to the floor, and while its on the floor I open the bleeder and pump the vacuum by hand about as many times till there's no more air??!! Then I close the bleeder up and bring up the pedal by hand. It then should feel like a normal pedal.

3rd Process: The only way you can leave the bleeder open and bleed is if you are doing a hose and reservoir bleed. this hose is connected tight to the bleeder, it goes into a bottle container with a good amount of brake fluid in the bottle. you put some fluid in the bottom so that it wont suck back air. you keep pumping until the air bubbles are gone. (the way chilton manual describes it)

This post has been edited by BonzaiCelica: Oct 15, 2012 - 1:52 AM

[trdproven]

i usually go for 1 and 3, for the vacuum pump kit has good examples how to use it on youtube, if thats what you choose.

[Special_Edy]

Attach a clear hose to the bleeder nipple, and immerse the opposite end of the hose in a jar eith an inch of clean brake fluid at the bottom. Have a helper push down the clutch pedal slowly, and as they start to push down open the bleeder valve. As soon as the pedal reaches the floorboard have the helper holler at you to close the valve, and once the valve is shut holler back at the helper that they can release the pedal. Repeat this process until there are no more bubbles coming out of the valve into the clear hose. You will need to periodically check the level of fluid in the master cylinder reservoir as your pumping because it is quite obviously draining into your jar on the ground. Dont leave the reservoir cap off or loose while pumping because fluid will spray EVERYWHERE. You may also want to bleed the clutch until the fluid coming out appears clear, in order to get all the old dirty fluid outta there.

[BonzaiCelica]

i usually go for 1 and 3, for the vacuum pump kit has good examples how to use it on youtube, if thats what you choose.

Dont leave the reservoir cap off or loose while pumping because fluid will spray EVERYWHERE. You may also want to bleed the clutch until the fluid coming out appears clear, in order to get all the old dirty fluid outta there.

to use steps 1 and 3 do you need to have the master clutch cylinder reservoir cap on?? How much brake fluid must be in the master clutch reservoir when doing the process 1 or 3?!!!

[Special_Edy]

You dont need it on or off, but from presonal experience when the clutch or brake pedal is depressed brake fluid sprays all over your engine compartment if the cap isnt on the reservoir.
As for the fluid level just keep topping it off back to the full or max fill mark. Your bleeding the system so naturally fluid is being sucked out of the reservoir as you pump it out of the bleeder valve. Just keep an eye on it and dont let it get empty or else air will get pumped into the line and you will have to bleed it all over again.

[BonzaiCelica]

Attach a clear hose to the bleeder nipple, and immerse the opposite end of the hose in a jar eith an inch of clean brake fluid at the bottom. Have a helper push down the clutch pedal slowly, and as they start to push down open the bleeder valve. As soon as the pedal reaches the floorboard have the helper holler at you to close the valve, and once the valve is shut holler back at the helper that they can release the pedal. Repeat this process until there are no more bubbles coming out of the valve into the clear hose. You will need to periodically check the level of fluid in the master cylinder reservoir as your pumping because it is quite obviously draining into your jar on the ground. Dont leave the reservoir cap off or loose while pumping because fluid will spray EVERYWHERE. You may also want to bleed the clutch until the fluid coming out appears clear, in order to get all the old dirty fluid outta there.

Does the Jar have to be exactly like this picture???



Also take a look at this video, it goes black for about 10 seconds because I have to open the bleeder valve. I'm doing process one by having the helper pump 2 and on the 3rd hold. Look towards the end of the video, is the fact that the hose is not fully secured onto the bleeder valve causing that huge air bubble that starts all the way at my left hand pointer finger



or better yet TRDproven or Special Edy can you post a video of what your slave cylinder does if you hold how the clutch pedal for more than 2 seconds. IF it goes back down like mine, and doesn't hold the pressure. This is driving me up the wall...

This post has been edited by BonzaiCelica: Sep 1, 2012 - 12:27 AM