Superstrut Suspension, ST202 - ST205 suspention Options

[BonzaiCelica]

guide to converting superstrut to mcerphson will be made in separate thread. link below...

http://www.6gc.net/forums/index.php?showto...p;#entry1030522

This post has been edited by BonzaiCelica: Nov 7, 2013 - 1:21 AM

[Edophus]

Also since the shocks are rebuidable just like all US Celica's. How come I haven't seen any website that only sell the strut insert instead of the whole shock. as you can see here this is how we get them. From the looks of this it seems the strut inserts are different as well as the springs. Where can I get some used front lower springs?

I have an opened st205 front shock, the insert is very narrow, narrower than the strut casing which pinches a little about half way down to hold it in place. If you wanted to use a wider shock insert it would just be case of cutting out the pinch section and welding in straight pipe, no different really to the way lots of people make custom coilovers.

I think for springs normal st202 lowering springs will work on a superstrut celica, some guys on ccuk have seen superstrut cars with normal st202 lowering springs on and they were fine. I wouldnt put st202 springs on an st205 though as the spring rates will be too far apart.

[FORGMANN]

The gt4 and SS3 racks are longer and subframe rack mount points are
different on JDM ones.

A LHD rack from Europe will not not be cheap..

Best bet is to build a hybrid rack using both racks..

My car is RHD so this will not be issue on my SS install

Here link for #2 arm poly bushing

http://www.superpro.com.au/find-superpro-p...205/67-145-1510

This post has been edited by FORGMANN: May 30, 2012 - 10:24 AM

[BonzaiCelica]

hey forgmann^^^ that link you posted. Has nothing to do with the front superstrut suspension!!???

[FORGMANN]

If you look at link it is part number reference for poly bushing .
They are only company i know that makes poly for front
superstrut arms at all..

It is for rear arm of Superstrut or rear of arm on Mac strut cars

This post has been edited by FORGMANN: May 30, 2012 - 5:58 PM

[BonzaiCelica]

If you look at link it is part number reference for poly bushing .
They are only company i know that makes poly for front
superstrut arms at all..

this post was about whether you can use mcpherson poly bushings for superstrut arms. answer to this is on page 14

This post has been edited by BonzaiCelica: Sep 16, 2013 - 11:06 PM

[Edophus]

be interesting to see if you can get those rebuilt, where the camber control arm bolts to the body its a spherical bearing, so unless its worn, going to a poly bush will likely be worse for handling, could be negligable though. I've looked into having it replaced with a spherical bearing for my gen 5 celica because it needs a different inner diameter to the gen 6 mounting point, the arm itself is one half of the bearings casing, so it would need machined and then a new bearing pressed or shrunk in there, and then you just end up where you started, could be cheaper to just buy a new arm by the time you do all that, even if your just going polybush there, you'll need to machine the arm. The camber control arm has a greater freedom of movement to rotate and twist than the macstrut wishbone which just rotates, hence why its a spherical bearing and not a rubber bush.

where the banana arm meets the body it in theory should be the same as the macstrut, so the polybush might be compatible, the only thing i'd watch is that the superstrut go's through a little more range of motion, it shouldnt be an issue though, i'm sure i've heard of people doing this and it being an improvement on the st205

This post has been edited by Edophus: May 31, 2012 - 8:43 AM

[BonzaiCelica]

Conclusion :
You have to be prepared to at least spend $1,000 for new superstrut parts once you already spent $200-400 (iDo not pay $250 for the conversion parts) for the superstrut conversion. This is not budget friendly and at this point I can do much more important things first. If you autocross/time attack then yes I'd do the swap, but if its a daily driver with occasional canyon driving then I'd stay with McPherson suspension.

Just FYI :

Stock GT4 Sway Bar is 15mm
Tanabe GT4 Sway Bar is 17mm
C-One GT4 Sway Bar is 18mm

This post has been edited by BonzaiCelica: Nov 12, 2013 - 6:35 PM

[rdyzz]

sorry to bring this topic back up, i've always wondered how the superstrut would work vs macpherson. i wonder how these will be vs a properly setup macpherson setup using roll center adjusters. say on a strut car with pillowball mounts you can tilt the struts at an angle to gain castor and camber at the same time. of course this will add more SAI and change the scrub radius, maybe for the better depending on your wheel offset, however since there is more SAI and your geometry is good it should make your camber curve better, it will also add to your roll stiffness. heres my setup.

did you guys ever get this to work?

http://carphotos4.cardomain.com/images/001...9_large.jpg?v=1

now with a longer stud my control arms are at a way better geometry, i tested it and at full shock compression the control are is stright out at the longest point in the geometry circle.

http://carphotos4.cardomain.com/images/001...6_large.jpg?v=1

[BonzaiCelica]

^^ this reminds of something the sw20 mr2 have. Some guy build a kit so those with coilovers would have better travel. not really understanding what you did. all I can notice is the end tie rods are flipped upside down. and that silver thingy attached to your sway bar????

[delusionz]

I read something a few pages back, i have to say superstrut is probably a good thing on a GT4 as we dont have the LSD up front like the SS-III so with the reduced grip in the front and the extra drive from the rear i think understeer is even worse in a gt4 (at low speeds anyways, at high speeds the ass can be more tail happy as you use the brake to transfer the weight to the back before punching the gas mid corner)

[rdyzz]

^^ this reminds of something the sw20 mr2 have. Some guy build a kit so those with coilovers would have better travel. not really understanding what you did. all I can notice is the end tie rods are flipped upside down. and that silver thingy attached to your sway bar????

well when you lower a car with macpherson your control arms point upwards, pretty much messin up our roll center. what this here is is pretty much a drop spindle style in taht it fixes your geometry back to factory or better. im not sure how this would compare to a superstrut system, it may still be inferior, but it sure makes the macpherson a whole lot better then from the factory.

heres what i meant to show you.



btw im wondering if anyone has found a way to replace the factory bearings with spherical style bearings?

[BonzaiCelica]

hmm trying to understand you i really am. what do you mean by this?? btw im wondering if anyone has found a way to replace the factory bearings with spherical style bearings?

http://www.6gc.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=80081

This post has been edited by BonzaiCelica: Jul 13, 2012 - 7:21 PM

[rdyzz]

hmm trying to understand you i really am. what do you mean by this?? btw im wondering if anyone has found a way to replace the factory bearings with spherical style bearings?

http://www.6gc.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=80081

heres a crappy diagram i drew up. the black circle is the control arms range in a circle. since its fixed at one point only it can only move within that geometry range. the dotted red is a corrected control arm angle. the solid red is a lowered cars control arm angle. the gray is the wheel. and the arrows are pretty much how wheel moves. that guide to handling mik kojima wrote explains some of this. basically what this roll center does for macpherson is make it suck less.

http://carphotos.cardomain.com/images/0015...5_large.jpg?v=1

this is the control arm with no roll center adjusters. mind you this is on a jack stand so once theres weight on it the factory setup points upwards.
http://carphotos2.cardomain.com/images/001...1_large.jpg?v=1

this is it with the roll center adjuster.
http://carphotos2.cardomain.com/images/001...7_large.jpg?v=1

my old superstrut i got from a front clip, was gonna install them but on my chassis it will probabally require alot of cutting and welding. not to mention after reading up on the longivity and service of these it kinda swayed me away.

http://carphotos.cardomain.com/ride_images..._large.jpg?v=0

This post has been edited by rdyzz: Jul 13, 2012 - 10:28 PM

[LimitedGT4]

Cut? Weld?
Its a straight swap
it was for me
Changed all control arms and sway bar and links and done no weld no cut no replacing rack
You will need an alignment badly wheels will be pointing inward

[Rusty]

MRP LTD - Manon Racing Products, New Zealand

[rdyzz]

Cut? Weld?
Its a straight swap
it was for me
Changed all control arms and sway bar and links and done no weld no cut no replacing rack
You will need an alignment badly wheels will be pointing inward

stright swap on an ae92 chassis?

sorry your probabally wondering why i post on 6th gen celica if i dont own a celica. well im always thinking of ways to have a better front suspension. and i regret that i didnt keep the superstrut system i had until i coulda learned the skills needed to mount them. however reading this thread and finding out about how the replacement parts are discontinued is pretty discouraging.

also im not trying to stir anything up, im just a toyota enthusiast and love all the technology toyota has put in their cars.

http://carphotos2.cardomain.com/images/001...5_large.jpg?v=1
http://carphotos4.cardomain.com/images/001...4_large.jpg?v=1

This post has been edited by rdyzz: Jul 14, 2012 - 7:43 AM

[LimitedGT4]

Cut? Weld?
Its a straight swap
it was for me
Changed all control arms and sway bar and links and done no weld no cut no replacing rack
You will need an alignment badly wheels will be pointing inward

stright swap on an ae92 chassis?

Sorry thought we were talking celicas

[BonzaiCelica]

uhh corolla did also come with superstrut suspension, which consists of smaller superstrut parts. and those parts, if they doo fit your ae92 chassis are still readily available

[BonzaiCelica]

quick somebody tell me what tshuchiya is saying!!??

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Dnmec_dz_A

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=endsc...mF5vbs&NR=1

^^^ watch from 4:56-5:14 you can see superstrut at work vs civic type r. Also listen from 6:35-6:57 he says the celica and civic have same braking and suspension Even take a look at . civic type r has 4 wheel double wishbone and celica has rear double wishbone and superstrut up front.

just some more food for thought. It seems the conclusion on the SS-II Superstrut Celica was that it needed better tires, because the rear end was throwing off the balance with the superstrut. Could also be that it was toyota's first time puting a double wishbone and superstrut geometry on the same chassis. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nQ7ao-IT7so

This post has been edited by BonzaiCelica: Apr 22, 2013 - 2:15 PM