True about GT86... Options

[malpaso]

Martin - if you spent week driving GT86 - we could talk then - and you COULD compare cars by then... But after few Km's - its crazy a bit to give opinion.... And if you are only driving in straight line - then you need a dragster then....

I felt in love with this car round after 500miles... First 200 was like hmmm whats so special about it? But later on - you find all the small details about driving, steering, drifting - and theres more then enouth of power to get you from point A to B with enouth of fun and smile.

Later this week - we will have BRZ drive on our local track with profesional driver. it will be REALLY nice to compare time of it to GT-Four and SSIII (Martynas car with ~300hp and Vidmantas SSIII) and see how much difference will be...

I fully understand your excitement mate (not just because you bought it ). It meets your needs. I also understand excitement of everyone (all GT/ST drivers) I talked to after test ride "how great car it is". I only wish you respect my option, my priories and expectations plus the way I created it.

- I already wrote local people are 6gen Celica enthusiasts = I tried to approximate my experience to Celicas we all know (not to any other brand/car).
- I have seen drag race between two GT-S and result was clear. Supported by numbers = clean mathematic explanation (just facts) proving it was not just because of "bad driver".
- NOTHING ELSE but drag race can be compared by numbers. Just drag race. That is why comparing JUST DRAG RACE. Not any other activity.
- When I sit into GT86 I just simulated one thing: Driving normal speed (line in any public road) and than suddenly accelerating +20 km per hour (like overtaking other car). The thing I need every day driving my car on the road. Simple thing common for any other car. Nothing special. Result was horrible. Even diesel van can overtake faster.

I do not need drift every day, make donuts with the car everyday or drive on the edge on twisty roads (like on circuit) every day. I want - every day - to overtake car FAST when I need it. That is why just this simple test was enough (in terms of every day used acceleration compared with my car = fat old ST205).

Plus. When thinking about one fiction "chance to swap my car for GT86". No money in advance paid (or got ). Just swap it. I need to count my personal priorities and expectations from a car into consideration and try to match it with ST205 or GT86 (first three are simply mandatory with top priority):

basic condition: I do not have salary to keep two cars = I need to pick just one.

- I like to take my family (that means fit into car more than two people + luggage for three people) and drive thousands of miles with it.
- I like to enjoy high passes (12% elevation if you need example) with loaded car as described below and not end behind RV for miles because not am able to overtake it.
- I want be able to ride with more than one passenger in the car for more than 100miles with at least minimum comfort provided to all (they can keep their both legs for example). Yes I'm talking about ability to sit on rear seats when they are already there available.
- I want keep my car on the road even during winter (ice & snow on road is normal here for many months).
- I like to move occasionally things if needed (for example baby carriage, 250000 cc vivarium for my python, bike, shopping bags, new TV, four spare tires...)
- I like from time to time to take my car to circuit. Just enjoy fast driving.
- I do not drift. I like when car grips not drifts in corners (so yes I like boring cars).
- I like to keep in the car some "useless" things all the time (1liter of engine oil, extinguisher, some tools for possible emergency repairs, spare washer liquid, umbrella, infant carrier... etc) and not feel bad it is weight in advance that is possibly slowing me down.

In short I want sports car that can be used in normal life. ST205 meets all to the letter. GT86 is not... Damn is not.

I hope you understand what I am talking about. I really believe you are happy with GT86 and you had reason buying it (and that reason was not lower price because of importing it). Just please try to understand there are other points of view comparing the car and not everyone has the same "scale", "angle of vision", "abilities" (call it however) as you do.

This post has been edited by malpaso: Oct 1, 2012 - 11:02 AM

[95CelicaST]

i can only say this...

drive the scion frs and then talk about it, if you still dont like it after a drive, then ok.

RWD is fun. but its fun light weight. a 400whp 3 ton monster, its not fun, its just loud and heavy...

lol. I will never regret buying the frs. its not fast, its not luxurious, but it is freaking fun to drive.

This..

[doGGy]

Martin -

I want - every day - to overtake car FAST when I need it. That is why just this simple test was enough (in terms of every day used acceleration compared with my car = fat old ST205).

You really AINT DROVE it then. Really. Or drove it till 4K rpm in 6 gear... ever heard about Downshift? ... Fun starts at 5500rpm and last till very 7400 easily And once you in next gear - it aint over Just cant read what you are trying to say about this car - cuz 80% of this isnt true... (i know that in your GT4 its a DIFERENT story - you dont need to downshift - you need to find some BOOOOOOst ) And once you in next gear - it aint over Just cant read what you are trying to say about this car - cuz 80% of this isnt true...

Yes - GT4 is FAST. BUT - take the stock GT4 - and it would be close race between these 2. Stock GT4 and GT86 = GT86 would whop GT4's ass on ANY track - thats period. You are used to 350hp+ car - and THIS IS why it feels 'slow' for you... And to be honest - GT4 is not much more spacier Reading your description - it looks like GT86 is somthing like a Polski Fiat and your GT4 is Cadillac Devile..

About drift / grip - GT86 / FRS - with RIGHT combination tires pulled 1G in cornering test - now go figure... Really - dont JUDGE this car if you aint experienced it. And you picked WRONG car to compare it to... Really If you are trying to WRITE YOUR thoughts WHY YOU DONT NEED GT86 - then name this topic right then

In short I want sports car that can be used in normal life. ST205 meets all to the letter. GT86 is not... Damn is not.

No it doesnt. ST205 is 2 door, has a tiny trunk, not comfortible at all and so on - i can go day and night if you want. If you need a SPORTS car that can be used daily - get a STi, a FREAKING STi - it will be a 4 door (so you will be able to put a kid seat in it too!) it will have a NORMAL trunk! and you will be able to put a Roof rack on it also! And it will be atleast 10 times MORE fun to drive then ST205! Try it - and you will see! Dont close your eye to other options - and strap your self to freaking ST205 - cuz its not the worlds number 1 car at all

And YES - GT86 is a sports car for a NORMAL life - exept what you call a NORMAL life? For me NORMAL life - is havinga car that it was designed for - Daily - cheap / realible / low fuel consumption. Weekend - get what you want - cuz its YOUR weekend / free time toy!

I just have a NORMAL family car. By NORMAL i mean NORMAL - wich is economical, diesel (low end torque), spacy (i can carry LOTS OF THINGS at ONE TIME lol - not one thing from your list one time ) and its called Corolla Verso.And i DONT need to RACE / drag race with my family / friends on board... GT86 is my toy to play around, and then im playing - i DONT NEED 3 more people to be in my car Because i enjoy playing alone - and be responsible for my own life GT86 is ment to be LEGO in reall life. You are buing a BASE for a tune-up. Everything else - is just you imagination. It will be super fun car on the snow (not like oversized GT4 pig that all it does - understeers in EVERY corner...). GT86 is a bit histerical with its back end, but with the right setup (shocks / swaybars) it will be super smooth in the corners even in the wet / snow. Cant wait to be honest to try it out in winter....

This post has been edited by doGGy: Oct 1, 2012 - 2:21 PM

[Box]

ST205 is a liftback, and has LOTS of cargo space for a car of its size. Way more than the FR-S with its trunk. There was a roof rack option for Celicas too.

[Box]

Wait, answer to your problems:

It's faster and roomier than both. So everyone get along and appreciate each car for what it is and what it isn't.

This post has been edited by Box: Oct 1, 2012 - 3:02 PM

[malpaso]

Just cant read what you are trying to say about this car - cuz 80% of this isnt true...

How you dare to judge me or what I write and can NOT READ IT at all!?

You really should ask your self question why you are here. Why you are between 6gc enthusiasts? That is first of all.

Second of all. BEFORE you say something about me, about something I wrote, my way of life... you should READ through it and use more than one brain cell to at least understand it. Start with first article, article that made you start this discussion. I'm really tired to see you twisting thing "I say" or even "never said"...

- Do I write ANYTHING about comparison of stock GT-four and GT86? Anything else but mathematically calculated number for all Celicas in terms of possible drag race? Read through my original article and quote me! Now think what you write ABOUT ME here (how I lie - not saying true - for example)...

- Do I write ANYTHING about wanting change my car for any other car? Complaining I miss something my car do not have? Do I need advice what to do with my life? Now think about why you write in stile "you want? buy! (Verso, STi...)" or comparing our lives (comparing incomparable btw).

- Do I write ANYTHING about GT86 has worse handing than ST205? Look to my first article and quote me. You know what? I will help you and quote my self that part + bolt important parts related to handling.:

...when cornering (and not controlled by electronic) you can feel the edge when car is sliding and when knot. The most fun is balancing on this edge just by gently playing with gas pedal. You do not need more. Just one leg and smile . Handling of this car is stunning. GT-Four just grips and holding the line. No fun. GT86 is different.

Now... remember your last article (especially parts when you comment what I should or parts when "discovering" how my driving is used to have boosted car and can not be the same) and think why you had feeling wrote it at all... Reason why? Especially after quotation from my first article:

To driving/"drifting" impressions. Since my feelings are "calibrated" to my car result was exactly what I expected. Not enough power, pitiful torque...

- than last thing is "conclusions". Do I wrote GT86 is bad car, useless, rubbish... and ST205 the top of the world? The best car ever drove? Find it and quote it or remain silent please. I'm really tired or reading about something I did not wrote here. Again I help you to share with opinion I said:

Now I need to slightly re-evaluate my opinion about GT86. I do not hate it as a car anymore (or lets say not that much as before). But but I hate twice more Toyota (as company) for:

a) not make it for 50% stronger/faster (with this price tag) -> make it 300HP/305Nm and I have no issue to pay 40k for it.
b) not selling it for half here (with this power) -> give it price tag 23k (as to Scion in US) and I will say not a single word about power.

That is all in terms GT86 vs stock ST205. I do not have stock ST205, I do not have garage full of other cars. Just this one and answer on question about: "Would you change GT86 for SS-four" is: No, I would not and not even if anyone paid me to do that. Because I have own reasons that has nothing to do with how ST205/GT86 is bad/great. My own reasons. If you try to judge my reasons this topic will be locked (or I erase all my posts - what ever) because I hate when someone who do not know me is trying to judge my private reasons. Is that clear?

note: you think I treat you unjustly about what you say? here is example you take this conversation personal with me not about two cars. You judge me and compare with you. I never did (or even "would do") that:

And i DONT need to RACE / drag race with my family / friends on board... GT86 is my toy to play around, and then im playing - i DONT NEED 3 more people to be in my car Because i enjoy playing alone - and be responsible for my own life

This is clear example you put this to personal level "your opinion is bad my is right". First of all I never wrote I put my family to danger racing with them - why you think I should? More over... I never drag raced. With my car or any other. I do not drag... (guess why I not grabbed chance to drag with GT86 and show her my tails lights) the same as I do not drift. I do not have car for this purpose. I use my as fast "grand touring" car to enjoy trips with my family and enjoying every single advantage it gives to me (advantage what GT86 can not). Now stop. I DID NOT SAY THERE IS NOT ANY OTHER CAR IN THIS PLANET BETTER FOR THIS (Read + think). I do not talk about any other cars. I talk about my car - car I have - and about GT86 in the same situation, Situation so common for my life. Do not try to judge "common situations" in my life in comparison of yours. This article is not about my or your live.

In fact only relevant - not personal - thing you wrote here:

...GT86 is ment to be LEGO in reall life. You are buing a BASE for a tune-up. Everything else - is just you imagination.

Exactly relevant to my conclusion:

...I hate twice more Toyota (as company) for:

a) not make it for 50% stronger/faster (with this price tag) -> make it 300HP/305Nm and I have no issue to pay 40k for it.
b) not selling it for half here (with this power) -> give it price tag 23k (as to Scion in US) and I will say not a single word about power.

That is my biggest "issue" with GT86 (nothing else):
For 40k I do not want just LEGO... as LEGO is deserving to have half price tag (to let me spent other half into "imaginations").

Can you accept that opinion Romas?

That leads me to Box...

Wait, answer to your problems:
...
It's faster and roomier than both. So everyone get along and appreciate each car for what it is and what it isn't.

Do have nay idea why I wrote this article? Do I have problems with my car (quote me)? Do I look for replacement for my car (quote me)? Read + think OR ignore. Please. That is only I ask.

Thank you...

To moderators: if you have feeling this discussion turned to too much emotional level and do not fill original purpose do not hesitate and lock it. Only i did is shared with experience to 6gc enthusiasts and received only comparison of my personal preferences against other who disagree with them.

[Tigawoods]

Its damn near impossible to post an opinion based topic and not encounter confrontations with others who differ in thought.

this should be locked or cleaned.

This post has been edited by Tigawoods: Oct 2, 2012 - 1:23 PM

[Box]

That leads me to Box...

Wait, answer to your problems:
...
It's faster and roomier than both. So everyone get along and appreciate each car for what it is and what it isn't.

Do have nay idea why I wrote this article? Do I have problems with my car (quote me)? Do I look for replacement for my car (quote me)? Read + think OR ignore. Please. That is only I ask.

Don't get smart with me. Did I ever say any of those things? No. So you read. I was trying to make the point that both of you are being silly. There's always going to be a better car, for whatever situation. So everyone get the **** along and stop the goddamned bickering.

[95CelicaST]

Leave it alone, everyone. Seriously. If you like the car then great. If you don't - that is cool. Let's not all act like religious fanatics and attempt to indoctrinate each other into our personal beliefs and feelings regarding it.

[richee3]

^^ Agreed. This thread needs to be cleaned. The GT-86/FR-S/BRZ cannot be compared to the ST205. The 205 is a heavy, AWD road-going rally car where the GT-86 is a lightweight street/track car. They are both sports coupes but after that, the similarities completely disappear. Some prefer the way the ST205 feels, others prefer the GT-86. To each their own.

[Xander_X]

Just to give my 2 cents of relevance, brand new with all the options my 1999 Celica cost around $30,000. Compare that to the price of the GT86/FRS/BRZ and what you get from it.

[Box]

Just to give my 2 cents of relevance, brand new with all the options my 1999 Celica cost around $30,000. Compare that to the price of the GT86/FRS/BRZ and what you get from it.

The 99 GT liftback started at $21,440. Still, I see what you're saying. $4,000 more and you get 65 more hp in a RWD format. Of course, count in inflation and that 99 Celica would cost $29,647 for the starting price.

This post has been edited by Box: Oct 2, 2012 - 3:04 PM

[doGGy]

Martin - you took all this WAY WAY too personal... I never wanted to insult or make you feel bad about this topic - if i did - i would never put any smiles in my writings... But OH WELL...

One point should be considered - its really hard to judge the car after simple test drive - thats all.. And for me - this is strange then people give STRONG opinions after driving ANY CAR (not only FRSGT86BRZ) just after few Km's... The reason i got in this discusion - is that i live my last 5 years over GT-Fours daily - i work on them, drive them - even have personal one... And i know this car just as YOU DO. And i was feeling EXACT The same way after first 100 miles in FRS JUST LIKE you wrote. But everything changes once you spend more time in FRS...

Anyway - dont get personal, sorry if you was feeling somehow bad and was thinking im trying to some how bash your option - this isnt so. Just dont see a point doing so.

But one question - i will answer for you

You really should ask your self question why you are here. Why you are between 6gc enthusiasts? That is first of all.

Because i spent way too much time between some of these guys here then you where NOT EVEN AROUND here, because i spent LAST 12 YEARS with 6GC celicas - and because i had MORE THEN 40 of them in my freaking life Because i can put this car from pieces, and because i still work on them and i guess i will do till i die Maybe this is why im still here lol I thought you knew this (read this in a FUN WAY, and cheer up.)

This post has been edited by doGGy: Oct 2, 2012 - 4:34 PM

[Xander_X]

Just to give my 2 cents of relevance, brand new with all the options my 1999 Celica cost around $30,000. Compare that to the price of the GT86/FRS/BRZ and what you get from it.

The 99 GT liftback started at $21,440. Still, I see what you're saying. $4,000 more and you get 65 more hp in a RWD format. Of course, count in inflation and that 99 Celica would cost $29,647 for the starting price.

Oh, my research came back as starting at $24,730. Then we have all the options mine came with.

This post has been edited by Xander_X: Oct 2, 2012 - 4:22 PM

[Box]

http://www.carsdirect.com/ Has the original MSRP and invoice price on most cars.

This post has been edited by Box: Oct 2, 2012 - 7:01 PM

[njccmd2002]

i agree, i will not pay 40k for a lego car.

The fact its a scion here, made it affordable.

i have the sticker price of my vert ant it was 26 grand. that dont lie. sorry. no cars direct will tell me different. sorry.

then again.

everyone is entitled to an opinion, and mine is we are having an argument over nothing.

because those of us that drive an FRS right now, could not care less about anything, except having fun driving it. and i bought mine out of impulse, because it was so..... fun.

so... Chill, relax, and enjoy the site.

Me ill enjoy my car.... LOL,

[Box]

Yeah, but dealers charge more than MSRP at times. So, yeah dealers suck. That and the convertible started at $25,009 MSRP.

This post has been edited by Box: Oct 2, 2012 - 9:48 PM

[malpaso]

Don't get smart with me. Did I ever say any of those things? No. So you read. I was trying to make the point that both of you are being silly. There's always going to be a better car, for whatever situation. So everyone get the **** along and stop the goddamned bickering.

Box... again. Do you have any idea why I wrote this article? You think it was about to find "better car, for whatever situation"? Do you understand from what I wrote I deny there I no any better car? I simply miss the point of your answers. The point why you bringing them here. Especially after I already gave answer to you on 'Sep 30, 2012 - 3:44 PM' by post #'989171'. That is all.

Martin - you took all this WAY WAY too personal... I never wanted to insult or make you feel bad about this topic - if i did - i would never put any smiles in my writings... But OH WELL...

Pity you never used smiles when writing how you can not read my topic because it is full of lies. To say someone is not saying true is damn personal...

Just cant read what you are trying to say about this car - cuz 80% of this isnt true... (i know that in your GT4 its a DIFERENT story - you dont need to downshift - you need to find some BOOOOOOst ) And once you in next gear - it aint over Just cant read what you are trying to say about this car - cuz 80% of this isnt true...

So when you followed quotation above with comparison of my priories of life and yours in style "my is right, your is not" it was just about enough for me. For me is all right you have different priories of you life. I just cannot follow "me, my self and no one else" philosophy. I prefer to share with friends or family moments I enjoy in my life. Not being alone when I'm happy. But that do not mean I can say "your way is wrong". I respect it but will not follow. That's it. Anyway. As you see this has nothing to do with GT86 vs Celica.

In this topic I never meant to talk about life priorities or preferences but about cars. When making any conclusions only based on general facts (anyone can find & check) and personal feeling (and every time I wrote personal feeling I mentioned that situation and explained why). Reason is to describe as much as possible "my scales" and let other people to make own one. To give them chance to "re-calibrate" personal opinion against mine (because it is obvious everyone can have different priorities). I just described conditions under I had chance to test it and feeling I had. Nothing else. No conclusion how bad/great/better/worse car it is. Really if you can find enough strength and read my first topic you can see it. Loud and clear.

To my asked question "Why you are between 6gc enthusiasts?". From you wrote from very beginning I had feeling you forgot where you are and what people you can find here. This is not general car-enthusiast forum. People here are interested in '94-'99 Toyota Celica cars. That is why is relevant to compare GT86 just to those cars (what ever are different). Just to Celicas. Also the fact 86 concept it self was presented from first moment as 8gen Celica everyone here focused on it. My point never was to review the car but at least to compare it with Celicas in only way it could be compared. By numbers + describe my feeling driving it first time (under conditions I already mentioned). What followed got us in this moment...

Love it 10x more then ANY GT-Four. As i said before GT-Four is a boat... boat on water... As FRS is a jetski. Period. GT-four is OK for power - but if we are talking about GT-four - then i would take any GC chasis STi over GT-four ANYTIME.

You can NOT compare GT86 / FRS / BRZ to a GT-four - thats a differnet league car.

Martin - if you spent week driving GT86 - we could talk then - and you COULD compare cars by then... But after few Km's - its crazy a bit to give opinion.... And if you are only driving in straight line - then you need a dragster then....

etc... just responses showing you do not understand what I wrote and why (probably because you do not read it or you are light years away from Celica enthusiasts and not able to understand it... I do not know). I really have nothing more to say about this topic. Have fun with it the way you wish.

[Tigawoods]

Where are the mods??

[Box]

Don't get smart with me. Did I ever say any of those things? No. So you read. I was trying to make the point that both of you are being silly. There's always going to be a better car, for whatever situation. So everyone get the **** along and stop the goddamned bickering.

Box... again. Do you have any idea why I wrote this article? You think it was about to find "better car, for whatever situation"? Do you understand from what I wrote I deny there I no any better car? I simply miss the point of your answers. The point why you bringing them here. Especially after I already gave answer to you on 'Sep 30, 2012 - 3:44 PM' by post #'989171'. That is all.

I think you simply miss the point of the English language.