Car Stalled, Won't Start Options

[mkernz22]

So today my car randomly stalled on me and then wouldn't start.

Basically, I started the car, backed up a 20-30 feet, stopped, put it into 1st gear, started to let the clutch out, and she just stalled.
I thought I just stalled my car, but then I realized the clutch wasn't fully let out yet. I went to start her and she just keeps turning over.
My friends and I tried to push start her, and she sounded like she wanted to start, but won't. There's compression cause you could hear it in the exhaust and she's getting air. I have to check the fuel and spark tomorrow, though the spark plugs look fine.

As for checking the fuel, I'm just going to unbolt the fuel line from the filter and see if there's anything there.
Then for spark, I don't have a tester, but I'm going to pull the distributor and see how that is.

Timing belt was just done last winter so I highly doubt that jumped a tooth or broke.
Oil and coolant are fine, nothing is mixed so the head gasket is fine.

Any input would be appreciated.
Thanks.

[trdproven]

first thing is check for error codes, from there whether it has codes or not, it will give you or us an idea the next step.

[mkernz22]

first thing is check for error codes, from there whether it has codes or not, it will give you or us an idea the next step.

No check engine light or anything. It's a 94 ECU and harness so OBDI

[Special_Edy]

Spray starting fluid(ether) into the intake through the throttlebody. If the engine starts on starting fluid then the problem is fuel related. If it still wont start its ignition related.

easiest way to test the spark plugs for spark-
remove a sparkplug wire from any sparkplug but leave it attached to the distributor. Now insert a screwdriver(or suitable metallic object) or a used spark plug(or a new one for $2) into the spark plug wire boot so that it touches the metal inside. Finally set the metal object or sparkplug against any non-painted metal surface of the engine and crank the engine. You will see the sparks if there are any.

To test the injectors for an ecu signal- Rent the tool at autozone called the Noid Set, its a fully refunded $20 deposit, just bring the tool back when your done. Plug it into an injector wire and fire the engine. It should blink if the ECU is functioning correctly

[trdproven]

^ yup if you get nothing from any error codes, start checking fuel and spark.

[mkernz22]

Well she's getting gas alright. Took the spark plugs out again just to double check them and you can smell fuel coming from the cylinders and I could smell raw fuel when I took the intake off the TB and manually opened the throttle. It's a spark related issue then, but I'm curious as to why it would just happen so quickly like that.

Also, I checked the timing and it's fine.
I'm going to get new plugs and wires tonight and then go from there.

[Special_Edy]

Well she's getting gas alright. Took the spark plugs out again just to double check them and you can smell fuel coming from the cylinders and I could smell raw fuel when I took the intake off the TB and manually opened the throttle. It's a spark related issue then, but I'm curious as to why it would just happen so quickly like that.

Also, I checked the timing and it's fine.
I'm going to get new plugs and wires tonight and then go from there.

Check the fuses.
Verify that the Check Engine Light illuminates when you turn the ignition to the ON/RUN position.
Check the TWO wire plug that feeds into the distributor. There should be 12 volts between the two wires with the ignition on. These wires supply power to the ECU.
Check the primary and secondary resistance on the coil. With the distributor cap removed, the primary resistance is measured in ohms between the two stud/nut terminals on the coil. Secondary resistance is measured between the same positive terminal and the high tension output(where the spark goes to the rotor and eventually the spark plugs)



If the injectors are firing then the ECU is recieving its signal from the distributor. This means the crankshaft(camshaft on ours) position sensor is functioning correctly and the timing components are intact and functioning.

My money is on the coil being bad. They usually fail suddenly, right after you start the car.

This post has been edited by Special_Edy: Dec 5, 2012 - 3:34 PM

[mkernz22]

Well she's getting gas alright. Took the spark plugs out again just to double check them and you can smell fuel coming from the cylinders and I could smell raw fuel when I took the intake off the TB and manually opened the throttle. It's a spark related issue then, but I'm curious as to why it would just happen so quickly like that.

Also, I checked the timing and it's fine.
I'm going to get new plugs and wires tonight and then go from there.

Check the fuses.
Verify that the Check Engine Light illuminates when you turn the ignition to the ON/RUN position.
Check the TWO wire plug that feeds into the distributor. There should be 12 volts between the two wires with the ignition on. These wires supply power to the ECU.
Check the primary and secondary resistance on the coil. With the distributor cap removed, the primary resistance is measured in ohms between the two stud/nut terminals on the coil. Secondary resistance is measured between the same positive terminal and the high tension output(where the spark goes to the rotor and eventually the spark plugs)



If the injectors are firing then the ECU is recieving its signal from the distributor. This means the crankshaft(camshaft on ours) position sensor is functioning correctly and the timing components are intact and functioning.

My money is on the coil being bad. They usually fail suddenly, right after you start the car.

I'll check all of that tomorrow after my first class.
It's just a few screws and the coil is out, right? I mean I took off the cap today so I know I saw it lol
I'm just going to get one tonight and put it in tomorrow

This guy, right?
http://www.autozone.com/autozone/parts/Dur...0_442079_0_1994

[Special_Edy]

Yes thats the one but check yours with a multimeter before you buy a new one!

If its bad it will test bad.

Primary Resistance .2 - .9 ohms
Secondary Resistance 9.5k - 14.5k Ohms
^from that autozone coil page but close enough

[mkernz22]

Yes thats the one but check yours with a multimeter before you buy a new one!

If its bad it will test bad.

Primary Resistance .2 - .9 ohms
Secondary Resistance 9.5k - 14.5k Ohms
^from that autozone coil page but close enough

Well I was already out tonight with someone so I went ahead and bought one just in case. I just need to get a multimeter now.
Since I've never used a multimeter on a coil before, where are the two outputs on it since there's a regular output and a high voltage output.

This post has been edited by mkernz22: Dec 5, 2012 - 7:09 PM

[Special_Edy]

A coil is a transformer. It turns 12volts into 20,000-50,000 volts using two wound up coils of wire inside.
The electricity inside the 12volt side is converted into a magnetic force(because its wound up wire) that is absorbed by the secondary side which is 20k-50k. You can either step up or step down the voltage with a transformer by altering the number of windings on each side proportional to one another.

The primary side or primary windings of the coil are tested by testing the 12 volt INPUT. They are the 2 studs with a wire and nut on them. You would have to remove these wires to replace it for example.

The secondary side has no ground. So to test it you test the output(the high voltage terminal) and the positive terminal of the primary side. Resistance is higher(in the thousands) because there is no actual connection between the two, electricity is actually jumping from the primary side to the secondary side through electromagnetism.

Hope this answers your question but I always figure if you understand the WHY you will always get the HOW. Too many people just want the How without the Why.

[mkernz22]

A coil is a transformer. It turns 12volts into 20,000-50,000 volts using two wound up coils of wire inside.
The electricity inside the 12volt side is converted into a magnetic force(because its wound up wire) that is absorbed by the secondary side which is 20k-50k. You can either step up or step down the voltage with a transformer by altering the number of windings on each side proportional to one another.

The primary side or primary windings of the coil are tested by testing the 12 volt INPUT. They are the 2 studs with a wire and nut on them. You would have to remove these wires to replace it for example.

The secondary side has no ground. So to test it you test the output(the high voltage terminal) and the positive terminal of the primary side. Resistance is higher(in the thousands) because there is no actual connection between the two, electricity is actually jumping from the primary side to the secondary side through electromagnetism.

Hope this answers your question but I always figure if you understand the WHY you will always get the HOW. Too many people just want the How without the Why.

Well I'm glad to know how it works now!
My question is, though, where is the output for the high voltage side? Is it that metal plate where the screws go through?

[Special_Edy]

Oh lol, its the small metal piece sticking out of the shiny glue looking stuff.

The high tension is output through the cap to the rotor, then the plug wires and finally to the sparkplug. If you look at the distributor cap inside you should be able to see where the coil connects to supply power to the rotor at the center of the cap.

[czwalga]

Spark is easy to check if you have someone with you.


Take one sparkplug out and keep the wire attached, Touch the bolt area of the plug to the engine/ground and have someone start the car. You can pull the other 3 plug wires to make sure the car doesnt start on 3 cyl, but if it's not starting already it doesnt matter.

[mkernz22]

Oh lol, its the small metal piece sticking out of the shiny glue looking stuff.

The high tension is output through the cap to the rotor, then the plug wires and finally to the sparkplug. If you look at the distributor cap inside you should be able to see where the coil connects to supply power to the rotor at the center of the cap.

Alright, got it haha
I tested out the one I bought and the primary is .5 ohms and the secondary is 13.04k ohms so that checks in fine.
I just need to get the one off the car and check it now

Spark is easy to check if you have someone with you.


Take one sparkplug out and keep the wire attached, Touch the bolt area of the plug to the engine/ground and have someone start the car. You can pull the other 3 plug wires to make sure the car doesnt start on 3 cyl, but if it's not starting already it doesnt matter.

I probably should try that, but I don't have anyone to help me since all my mechanically inclined friends are in class most of the day today

[Box]

Spark is easy to check if you have someone with you.


Take one sparkplug out and keep the wire attached, Touch the bolt area of the plug to the engine/ground and have someone start the car. You can pull the other 3 plug wires to make sure the car doesnt start on 3 cyl, but if it's not starting already it doesnt matter.

I probably should try that, but I don't have anyone to help me since all my mechanically inclined friends are in class most of the day today

You don't have any other friends that know how to start a car?

[mkernz22]

Spark is easy to check if you have someone with you.


Take one sparkplug out and keep the wire attached, Touch the bolt area of the plug to the engine/ground and have someone start the car. You can pull the other 3 plug wires to make sure the car doesnt start on 3 cyl, but if it's not starting already it doesnt matter.

I probably should try that, but I don't have anyone to help me since all my mechanically inclined friends are in class most of the day today

You don't have any other friends that know how to start a car?

I mean I do, I just don't trust them as much lol


But I want to give a big thanks to Special_Edy for all the information and help!
It was the coil that went bad, it might have been the original one since it had Toyota written on it lol. There wasn't a zero for a reading, but the numbers kept fluctuating like crazy on both the primary and secondary. The primary spiked as high as 17.0 ohms at one point, but settled down to about 2 ohms. As for the secondary, it spiked close to 100k ohms at one point and then just kept stumbling all over the place. It just seemed like it was broken cause the new one was very steady with the readings.
Once this semester ends, in a week or so, I'm going back in there to replace the cap and rotor cause the rotor seemed like it was on it's way out.

[Box]

Huzzah!

[Special_Edy]

Yay, glad you are back on the road and you were able to do it yourself.

It may have been a old or bad coil, just dont take it for granted the new one will last as long. For me they seem to break in twos and threes sometimes, perhaps because a bad cap, rotor or plug wire was burning them up. It should have a lifetime warranty though so you are gold there.