5sfe Head gasket death! Options

[MotoFoo86]

Soooo, i went outside about 5 minutes early before departing to work to warm up my car. Started her up, and walked back inside to finish my breakfast, i happened to take a slightly longer breakfast then normal, and when i went back outside i saw this:

http://s1326.beta.photobucket.com/user/jer...94fc5b.mp4.html

Super lame. I let her cool down (which didn't take long with the hood open and it being 5 degrees outside), and then limped her the 1.2 miles to work. Looks like the coolant froze, i had JUST put the on the list of things to do, oil change. When i got off work, i tenatively i walked to the auto parts store nearby and bought new fluid to refill what had burned off. Filled her up, and started her with the cap open.

Looks like she blew her head gasket. Antifreeze is pretty milky. bummer! Now the question is, how far do i want to take this?

New head gasket?

Rebuild?

rebuild + build it?

or

Time for a 3sgte swap?


First step, drain and refill oil and antifreeze to make sure it's not just water or some other contaminant.

This post has been edited by MotoFoo86: Dec 31, 2012 - 9:16 PM

[Box]

Bright side, at least it happened in your garage and not doing 70 on the interstate. I'd say go ahead and do a swap if you've been wanting to do one.

[Smaay]

yep that will bite you every time. you can refill the water to see if it holds but if it was milky then chances are its toast. you really need to pull the head to inspect the block and head for cracks. if its not cracked and its still straight. then replace the headgasket (get a 98 camry gasket) and get back on teh road. If there is block damage then its done.

throw a V6 in there

[richee3]

throw a V6 in there

This.

[MotoFoo86]

Seems like a v6 swap is not in the cards, on premise it sounds really awesome and realistically it's where i'd rather be. However, this car is my MAIN transportation up to the ski resort where i work at. Until i can afford to buy another set of wheels/studded tires for my prerunner tacoma i'm stuck. I need a swap i can pull off quickly without much fab. 3sgte seems to fit the ticket better.

However there are many here that know better then i.

That being said, i am planning to get another harness + swap engine harness over to dr. tweak asap to get that all done. i'm hoping thursday to do my fluids and do some driving to check it out.

I do have to say, i gave her a quick run, and she no longer seems to be leaking. There is no odd odors or colors in the exhaust fumes, and the engine oil appears to be dirty, but uncontaminated. The plot thickens........

Honestly, as much as i'm planning on doing the swap, i'm really hoping the 5sfe can make it to summer as the daytime high around here rarely is higher then the mid 30's and if i do the swap the best shelter i'll have to do it in is a shed that's unpowered and unheated. Making it hard to work long hours on it, and a chilly preposition. I also would like time to rebuild whatever engine i decide to swap in before throwing it in. If you're going to do it, do it right imo.

This post has been edited by MotoFoo86: Jan 1, 2013 - 2:14 AM

[Neon90424]

4th gen 3sgte is up at 1 grand on ebay...careful theres one with a destroyed intake manifold...snapped at the head from bad shipping...they must have really thrown that around. unless you plan going aftermarket engine managament the wiring might be a hassle...

[mkernz22]

4th gen 3sgte is up at 1 grand on ebay...careful theres one with a destroyed intake manifold...snapped at the head from bad shipping...they must have really thrown that around. unless you plan going aftermarket engine managament the wiring might be a hassle...

Aren't 4th gen parts hard to come by?

[Neon90424]

which ones?...its the same as 3rd gen mostly...side feed intake eliminates lean 3rd cyl...and 98 blocks supposedly don't have the cracking between 2nd and 3rd cyl...

rods are made out of cheese though...

This post has been edited by Neon90424: Jan 1, 2013 - 12:55 PM

[MotoFoo86]

Looking to keep it as clean, simple, and reliable as simple. Which means i probably will do a piggyback off the ECU, so i'm thinking more 3rd gen. The extra power is tempting though!

[Smaay]

where are you getting your information from? have you done any research at all? a 3rd gen is going to cost you twice as much as a V6 swap. you can buy a 1MZ or 3MZ all day long in good shape for less than 1000 bucks. wiring is going to cost you the same between the 2. all you need is a passenger engine mount which you would need on a 3S swap anyways.

but hey who am i? only the guy that knows everything

[Neon90424]

forgot to write "all modesty aside...yes all of it is..." >_>

[MotoFoo86]

Perhaps i should also state that i'm fairly familiar with turbo'd inline 4's.... i've gotten most of my information here, read all of yours and kurt's projects. I'm sorry my opinions disagree with yours. However since you know everything, perhaps you could come up with a weight on the 3mz engine. I know it's an aluminum block, so it will be lighter then a iron block. I know the 3sgte will be heavier then the 5sfe, i'm sure the 3mz will be too however perhaps not by the same amount. I'm still formulating a decision.

I also mentioned that it's my ride up the mountain. the V6's are torquey, and low torque + ice doesn't always work out fantastically. Sometimes on ice a lack of power is nice. I do agree however that the smoother powerband on the non-turbo motors also help with traction issues.

Lastly, i'm wondering if you have any idea what kind of MPG's the 3mz gets mated to the s54 tranny. Seems like that combo would rev the engine up fairly good on the highway and destroy any hopes i have of a decent MPG. I suppose the same could be said of the 3sgte. Just a curiosity.

[Smaay]

im getting 26-28 on the highways and about 24 in town. but thats cause i cant keep my foot out of it. its just so much fin to drive.

you are right about torque and ice. but just feather the gas. you dont have to floor it.

weight wise im going to guess that the 3MZ is very close to the 3S-GTE. yes its aluminum Vs iron but there are 2 heads and they are fairly big with the VVT.

my opinion is based on the fact that i know what it costs for a 3S swap. i know what my swap costs. and i know what your needs are. my first piece of advise is just get another 5S. but since you want to upgrade it, im suggesting the V6.

i drove Eryns car with a 3rd gen raised to 18 psi and i was impressed. if felt like driving my Supra. she did that all on the stock ECU too by the way. you dont need any piggyback.

[MotoFoo86]

Perhaps i wouldn't need a piggyback, nor do i have any illusions of running 18 psi. I know it can probably handle it, but the harder you push an engine the faster and more likely you are to burn it out. The stock hp (3s or 3mz) in my mind would be all i would need. I plan on buying another car for full on high jinks, RWD for sure.
I
As far as the weight, i love the way my celi drives and i'm just trying not to add a giant brick under the hood.

I'm consider another 5s... but i do want a bit more grunt. I've looked into building one up, but it seems like an awkward option.

I have been considering the 3mz, just trying to work it all out. At the moment my current 5s seems to be holding, looks like i may have gotten lucky. Drained the fluids (oil and coolant) the other day. Checked them again today, they both appear clean. I'm skeptical that it will hold for a LONG period of time but perhaps i have gotten a reprieve.

I want my celica to be a blast to drive, which it already is, but a bit faster without compromising to much MPG or reliability. If it makes it to summer, i can drive my truck around while i do the swap, give me time to do it right (get her painted while the engine is out).

My issue with the ice is it's often hard to tell when you're on it, until you loose traction. The road i drive is often snow covered, and the ice will hide under the snow. However i suppose that the traction issue will probably be prominent with both engines. If the turbo happens to spool on the 3s that could be more disastrous then the NA torque of the mz series.

You may be pleased to know that i spent a good chunk of time this afternoon investigating the MZ's

This post has been edited by MotoFoo86: Jan 4, 2013 - 2:15 AM