I am just going to run low boost. . . yea right!, A warning for anyone who wants to boost a 5sfe Options

[HardHead93]

I am shopping around for a 3sgte and I have a few questions I am having problems getting an answer for:

1. Does it matter if I get a 3sgte with an automatic or manual transmission ECU? (My Celica is an manual)
2. Which is better, a CT26 or the CT15B that comes with the motor? Everywhere I am reading they are very similar in performance. Does anyone have real world comparison of the two?
3. What are the best seals to replace on the motor before I drop it in the car? (I plan to do the rear main seal, oil pump seal, timing belt, thermostat, and oil pan seal at a minimum) The motor will have 50-60k miles.
4. Is there anything I should watch out for when picking my 4th gen 3sgte? Are there any gotchas that I need to be prepared for with this swap?
5. What is the resistor-tachometer fix that I keep hearing about?
6. With regular maintenance and the occasional track day how long should I expect the motor and turbo to last before needed a major overhaul?

I am hoping to pull the trigger on the motor some time in October, then gather the rest of the parts I need, and get the wiring harness done through the rest of the fall/winter. I will also be parting out what I do not need from the 5sfe since besides the rods and pistons, the rest of the engine is good.

I did some looking around the 6gc.net site and found the following thread:

http://www.6gc.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=75910&st=0

It answered questions 2, 3, and 4. Could someone point me in the right direction to get the rest of the questions answered?

[lagos]

1. The ecu is slightly different between the automatic and manual versions of the car. The automatic might throw a CEL if there are some specific automatic sensors that it looks for. Personally I would just buy the manual version.

5. You need to modify the signal to the stock tach to make it read correctly. There should be an old post about it somewhere.

6. I installed my 2nd gen motor in 2004 and have since put about 110k miles since the swap. They are pretty reliable as far as turbo motors are concerned. Just make sure your seller provides you with compression test numbers and startup warranty.


Keep in mind that with the 4th gen motor you need to fully rewire the harness, while a 3rd gen motor is basically plug and play with the exception of about 4 wires. I would personally go with the 3rd gen motor.

[slavie]

Thanks for sharing the experience.

Having performed an autopsy on the engine, were you able to determine the cause of the demise? Fuel mixture problem? Timing problem?

To answer one of your questions:
1 (auto vs man ecu) Auto ECU will throw CEL for transmission shift solenoids. You can install a few large-ish resistors to overcome this - you can find details in some Gen3 Camry auto-to-manual swap threads. No impact on engine performance. Yes, easier to go with Manual ECU in the first place if you can, but not the end of the world if you cannot source one.

[HardHead93]

Thanks for sharing the experience.

Having performed an autopsy on the engine, were you able to determine the cause of the demise? Fuel mixture problem? Timing problem?

To answer one of your questions:
1 (auto vs man ecu) Auto ECU will throw CEL for transmission shift solenoids. You can install a few large-ish resistors to overcome this - you can find details in some Gen3 Camry auto-to-manual swap threads. No impact on engine performance. Yes, easier to go with Manual ECU in the first place if you can, but not the end of the world if you cannot source one.

I think the problem started with the rod knock on cylinder #4 from the first time I pulled the engine. That was caused by an oil flow issue from using the stock oil pump. If you turbo a 5sfe you need to get a 98+ camry/solara oil pump and shim the relief valve. When I recently pulled the motor again and took the engine apart I found the following issues.
1. Rod #1 had some small play in it so that was where the knock was coming from
2. Rod #4 had a spun bearing
My guess is that either the rod or the crank was no longer round on those 2 cylinders and replacing the bearings was not going to fix the problem. What I should have done when I pulled the motor the first time was have the crank and rods machined to a set clearance and buy the proper bearings from there. Lesson learned, like I said I am done with the 5sfte and am excited to go 4th gen 3sgte. I am currently parting out the engine on Ebay and have a thread on it here: http://www.6gc.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=97194

As for the 3sgte, it is funny you bring that up. I just pulled the trigger on a 4th gen 3sgte with a manual transmission ECU. I decided to go with that ECU because the engine it came with was in the best shape. I will pull the 3s wiring harness and send it off to Wiregap with the 5s harness once the engine arrives. While they are building my new harness I plan to get the tune up kit from MR2 Prime and the 3" downpipe. I plan to reuse my Spec clutch disk off the 5sfe because it maybe has 1500 miles on it since I installed it and get a 3s pressure plate and lightweight flywheel.

I know I said I planned to wait on the 3sgte for a few months but a great deal for one came up. When I walk by my Celica with an empty engine bay everyday on my way to work, it drives me crazy. Also, seeing all these 5sfte parts sitting next to the car does not help either.


To be continued. . .

This post has been edited by HardHead93: Oct 6, 2016 - 10:56 PM

[HardHead93]

Does anyone have any tips for cleaning and painting an engine bay? I have burn marks from an old engine fire. Now that the engine is out of the car I would like to clean some of that mess up.

[HardHead93]

Does anyone have any tips for cleaning and painting an engine bay? I have burn marks from an old engine fire. Now that the engine is out of the car I would like to clean some of that mess up.

Nevermind, I got my questions answered in this thread:
http://www.6gc.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=97213

[HardHead93]

I am really excited my 4th gen 3sgte came in today. I inspected it and it looks good to go. The only problem was they sent an automatic transmission ECU instead of manual. Oh well, it will still work. I guess a lot of other guys run A/T ECUs too.






This post has been edited by HardHead93: Oct 11, 2016 - 7:53 PM

[slavie]

Nice!

Some will argue that auto engines are better as auto tranny won't let you molest the engine as much. Of course, that's just one of the million factors in play, but maybe it's true in your case.

[HardHead93]

I got the valve cover off and the wiring sent off to wire gap. In the meantime I am going to swap the downpipes and replace the seals.

Nice!

Some will argue that auto engines are better as auto tranny won't let you molest the engine as much. Of course, that's just one of the million factors in play, but maybe it's true in your case.

Good to hear, I am hoping after I freshen up the motor, I get 100K miles with little to no problems. Toyota motors will run forever if you keep up the maintenance.

This post has been edited by HardHead93: Oct 16, 2016 - 10:06 AM

[xman92]

Wow, you are relentless.. Can't wait for this write up. This is the swap I want to go with. Keep us posted. Good Luck.

[HardHead93]

Wow, you are relentless.. Can't wait for this write up. This is the swap I want to go with. Keep us posted. Good Luck.

I wish I would have went this route from the beginning. It definitely would have saved me a lot of headaches. I cannot wait until I have this beast back on the road.

[HardHead93]

I have started the process of breaking down the engine so it is ready to go once the tune up kit arrives from MR2 Prime. Below is a picture of the timing belt before I removed it. This will make it easier for me to reinstall it when the time comes.


Below are some pics of the motor taken down to the point I need it to be.




I removed the upper and lower oil pain, oil pump, and camshaft gears. I plan to replace the following parts for the tune up:
1. Crankshaft seal rear
2. PCV grommet
3. Valve cover gaskets
4. Water pump and gasket
5. Timing belt - Sun brand
6. Timing belt tensioner
7. Thermostat and gasket
8. Spark plugs
9. Lower timing idler
​10. Oil pump o-ring and seal
11. Camshaft Seals
12. Convert to 3 inch cat-less downpipe
13. Light weight flywheel
14. Axle Seals
15. Magnet Oil Pan plug
I also picked up a JOBD to OBDII reader since the OBDII ports will output codes in JOBD format.

[lagos]

Keep up the great work!

[HardHead93]

Keep up the great work!

Thanks! I am itching to get back on the road. I need to make sure I take my time and do things right.

[HardHead93]

I got some of my goodies in for the swap.

There is my lightweight flywheel, 3sgte pressure plate, and tach adapter. I plan to reuse my SPEC Stage 2 5sfe clutch disk because it only has about 3K miles on it. The tach adapter will ensure my tachometer works with the new different tach signal from the ECU.

[HardHead93]

Just got my valve cover back after being powder coated. It looks good.

[HardHead93]

I got all my wiring back from Wiregap and it looks awesome! I started reassembling the engine and my goal it to have it back in the car by the end of the weekend.



Getting to the oil pump is a pain in the butt. There are 2 oil pans on this motor (upper and lower) and they both have different torque specs. I used a liberal amount of FIPG to make sure I would have no leaks. Also, the water pump is a tough on too. I got some blue gasket maker for those seals to ensure I had no water leaks. After double and triple checking my torque specs with my handy Snap On torque wrench, I think the engine is ready to go back into the car.


The wiring done by Wiregap fits great. You can tell they have done this before. Every wire was just the right length with very little slack. They even put the clips that attach to the intake manifold on to make it hang perfectly above the fuel injectors.

[HardHead93]

***

This post has been edited by HardHead93: Nov 12, 2016 - 8:56 PM

[HardHead93]

I was excited and ready to do this thing! I had the tranny attached to the 3sgte and I was ready to go.


This turned into a tough day! I expected to be further along. I started the day with the idea that I was going to put the motor in the car and fire it up but that did not happen. The guy who powder coated my valve cover got paint into one of the bolt holes that hold the ignition coil in place. I started that bolt in that hole and within a couple turns it got hard to turn the bolt then the head of the bolt snapped off. DOH! I then spend the next 2 hours trying everything to get what was left of the bolt out. I ended up having to drill it out and re-thread the hole. After that I had problems getting the engine into the car because the 2 hangers for the engine are not lined up like on the 5sfe. This meant I had to fight with the engine and the hoist to get everything lined up straight. Good news is the engine is in and on 2 of the motor mounts, bad news is that it is the end of the day and I will have to pick this up in the morning. I hope I can have this done by the end of the weekend.


This post has been edited by HardHead93: Nov 12, 2016 - 9:45 PM

[HardHead93]

Got the wiring, intercooler piping and radiator in.