5SGTE custom piston. Options

[rhodesyboy]

Hi all.

So basically I'm considering doing a 5sgte build however as I am based in the UK I'm struggling to find good pistons, there is a few in the USA however import tax, delivery etc makes that a little bit out of reach.

However I'm looking into custom pistons, currently I am in talks with omega (only early stages but still). However as with many custom inquiries they need a minimum of 20 pistons to be ordered, so basically I'll need at least 4 other people to come along and get some custom pistons with me. This will be great for other people in the UK/EU doing a custom 5sgte build as it will give us access to high quality pistons (omega are VERY high quality). Unfortunately I am not certain on a price however I would guess the more people come along the cheaper it will become.

There will be a discussion in terms of how we spec these pistons in terms of fitment compression ratios etc before an order is placed, both on this forum and a few others.

Cheers

This post has been edited by rhodesyboy: Aug 22, 2018 - 10:26 AM

[slavie]

Honestly, you may be better off just paying the taxes and getting the already available pistons. 5SGTE builds are super rare for multiple reasons, one of the largest ones being the cost. Getting enough folks for a GB is going to be really hard.

If you're put off by few extra hundred $' on the pistons, you may not have the full grasp of the cost involved. Good 5SGTE builds can run upwards of $10,000, while sub-400 hp builds are hardly worth the trouble compared to a 3SGTE build.

Don't mean to discourage you, just trying to give you more information. I used to be really interested in a 5SGTE build - already got a 99 5S block, GTE head, standalone ECU, LSD E153 gearbox w/ axles - but decided that complexity and cost is not worth it as a 3SGTE can easily handle my goals of 400-450HP for far less $. 5SGTE only makes sense in an all out 500+ HP drag car build w/ an equally crazy budget.

[rhodesyboy]

10,000??? Yeah that's a fair bit beyond my wallet

I wasn't actually thinking of going beyond 500bhp anyway but mines a rev 3 block so I was just a touch concerned after hearing all of the speculations found on other threads relating to wall thickness.

I didn't actually expect it to be as high as that I thought it was a relatively straight forward swap, fyi I will be doing fabrication work myself i.e brackets, manifolds etc and I've already got a new turbo to fit, just in case that's a big chunk of the 10,000.

I thought it was relatively (using that word very loosely btw) straight forward, so long as you can find a block that's got some of the bolt holes drilled and threaded from factory which, apparently, exist.

The 3sgte is already out of my celica and I've been looking at some parts it's just that I came across the option of 5sgte builds which caught my eye.

Yeah I understand, but I really need as much information as possible, if it discourages me it's probably for the best and down to a lack of research on my behalf

[slavie]

I'm sure you can find the 10k builds if you search - a lot of it was engine assembly shop costs, but a good chunk was performance parts: pistons, forged rods, head and main studs, engine blueprinting and machining, head work (upgraded cams, springs, valves), the correct turbo that will spool up quickly enough and have enough breath for the power you're looking for, expensive clutch to handle the power, injectors, ignition, ECU, possibly adding oil squirters which 5S block lacks, and a million odds and bits. Are you equipped with micrometers, dial bore gauges, torque wrenches and so on to accurately measure and adjust all the clearances within the engine? Do you have the knowledge to blueprint an engine? (determine the necessary oil clearances, specs, etc) If not, realize that this is likely to cost more on a non-standard engine at a speed shop.

You can make 500 HP, it may even last long enough to produce a Dyno chart and a drag pass or two before throwing a rod, melting pistons, or lifting the head off the block. Making 500 HP with any degree of reliability is going to be expensive and time consuming.

[rhodesyboy]

I'll be doing majority of the building myself, but I will be sending it off for specialist machining. I do have a micrometer but it's a chinesium one that changes it's zero each time you measure something I do have a decent DTI gauge but not a dial bore gauge, but for the bore I will be sending the block off for straightening of the bore, honing etc anyway so I would imagine it would be unnecessary for me to have one myself? Yeah I've got torque wrenches and the likes.

I've certainly got enough to assemble an engine, however precise measurements is a bit more tricky.

The only thing I am concerned about with the build is the stuff that is different to building a 3sgte, because I'm well within budget to do that as I helped a mate building a 3sgte and remember how much he spent on parts. So I'm not going to worry about buying some forged rods as I'd do that for the 3sgte anyway so the price there makes very little difference between a 5sgte and a 3sgte. I already had an eye on 3sgte parts that would happily take the power I'm after (400-450 ish), I'm not just after turning up the boost without changing fuelling, ECU, internals. My only temptation for a 5sgte is that I'm just concerned with the strength of the rev 3 block.

Is true blueprinting necessary for a road engine? I was planning on getting everything balanced by a local engine machine shop and already discussed setting bearing clearances with the 3sgte, however I have not discussed the 5sgte yet. It was my understanding that 5sfe and 3sgte main bearings were identical (links below), it's just big ends that are different so surely that shouldn't be too painful to do?


https://www.mr2oc.com/61-3sgte-turbo/460111...e-bearings.html
http://www.celicatech.com/forums/archive/i...hp/t-43478.html

[njccmd2002]

I still dont see the reason why anyone would build a 500hp fwd car, and much more to spend thousands on building a 5sgte, unless they are sponsored.

Im not discouraging anyone, unless there is money to piss away, i am more than happy with 300 hp non turbo engine. But i guess it must be some form of challenge, or goal...

But getting a group buy on this site for pistons, would be something interesting to see..

I cannot even sell a 20$ floor mat with out getting asked for discounts.....

If you have the money, swap something reliable to enjoy, dont start a project u can finish, trust me Ive been there...

[rhodesyboy]

It's for a gt4 so 4wd.

Yeah I was just seeing if I could get some interest see if anyone would like to come in on it as it's a minimum order of 20 pistons.

Yeah, unfortunately it's not looking likely for me doing a 5sgte build as I've spoken to a company who have done a few of them and slave's advice from early in this thread and it turns out there's way more work than others made it seem.

However in case someone from the UK happens to stumble on this thread in the future looking for 5sgte pistons, give "MKautorepairsandtuning" a call. Very experienced and very friendly, they made their own spec of je custom pistons so certainly worth giving them a call.

[njccmd2002]

sorry, maybe 10 years ago, would have been a go. with celica prices in the low 500 bucks, here in the us, and fwd. most owners are just slapping tint and fart cans

[Smaay]

if you want 2.2L just stroke a 3S. its not difficult and parts are available