McPherson to Superstrut Conversion Options

[DST94]

Alright, so this is how I swapped the superstrut tie rods onto my AT200 rack and pinion. We didnt swap it on the another Celica and we snapped the linkage in half so we found out the reason for the C curve the hard way. Here you go. Suggestions and questions welcome.

Compare


Dissasemble



They are the same



Pry the gold back then use a set of pliers and a 19mm to separate the inner rod from the rack and pinion


Separated


Difference is minor, an alignment should fix any discrepancies


Attatch


Attatched






Attatch Boot


Done, rinse and repeat for the other side.




any thoughts are welcome, I havent driven the car yet but ill post again to update with problems if any arise.

This post has been edited by DST94: Nov 18, 2013 - 11:23 AM

[enderswift]

Never understood why everyone considered the steering rack such a huge obstacle to superstrut. Bet that only took 20 min

This post has been edited by enderswift: Jun 23, 2013 - 10:03 AM

[njccmd2002]

Looks like an inch difference times two. And when it comes to change those tie rods? Replacement options? I mean to say good job. But how will these issues be resolved? Only a temp thing? Good luck and keep us posted, not being negative at all, just wondering what u have in mind.

[DST94]

Looks like an inch difference times two. And when it comes to change those tie rods? Replacement options? I mean to say good job. But how will these issues be resolved? Only a temp thing? Good luck and keep us posted, not being negative at all, just wondering what u have in mind.

The difference totaled less than two inches combined, i haven't seen any issues i just need alignment and we will see if the difference affects it.

[playr158]

Yup I went RHD and kept McPherson...modding the steering rack was quick and easy. nice work

[LimitedGT4]

Thank you for demostrating to the forum the simplicity of the swap and great job at capturing the process. Welcome to the superstrut club now all wee need is more members so that someone starts making some decent superstrut replacements state side

On that note keep up the excelent work

P.S. you shouldnt have any problems. I didnt even swap the rack just everything else, sway bar, linkages, etc. and ive been drivin it for 2 years and about 15k miles no problems at all

This post has been edited by LimitedGT4: Jun 23, 2013 - 10:06 PM

[DST94]

Thank you for demostrating to the forum the simplicity of the swap and great job at capturing the process. Welcome to the superstrut club now all wee need is more members so that someone starts making some decent superstrut replacements state side

On that note keep up the excelent work

P.S. you shouldnt have any problems. I didnt even swap the rack just everything else, sway bar, linkages, etc. and ive been drivin it for 2 years and about 15k miles no problems at all

We broke the linkage on another Celica, did you swap the outers or what? We left the straight control arm and figured that was the problem. . .

[LimitedGT4]

the first time i swapped i used the stock linkages that came on my at200 with the stock sway bar and from just sitting and a few test runs i noticed they were bent so i swapped them out for the gt4 linkages and the gt4 sway bar since the sway bar is at a diff angle and the gt4 linkages are longer. This did the trick no problems after that. I tried swapping the rack but figured it would . Be overall the same and i believe iactually have more angle since my rack is slightly longer than the gt4 one and surprisingly my wheels dont hit anything and fully turn. And they are 18 inch wheels cus i know someone will ask and i believe they ar 8 inch wide dont know offset but tbey were the only cheap wheels i could get to fit the gt4 calippers almost without spacers. I had to use some washers cus clearance was off my less than 2 mm. That is clearance from the wheels to the face of the calipper

[BonzaiCelica]

I'll leave this here. thanks to qatar11 for measuring the steering rack

Funny you mentioned that.... I have (tentatively) figured out a solution to the steering rack issue. I measured everything up:



figured out that the ST204 Rack was ~3" shorter than the ST205 rack... so I took the ST205 inner tie rod to the local auto shop (the good kind, where you trip on engine blocks on the ground and the guy never answers his phone so you have to go in personally) and I asked for an inner tie rod but ~1.74 inches longer.

one week later... wa-la-presto:



I'm in the process of getting the sleeves that slide into the control arms and I should have some test fitting photos of the SS suspension installed

@player - I think what you need to do is the opposite... take your inner tie rod to a good auto shop and ask for something shorter.... then you can send me your original inner tie rods so I can have spares for the race car. Or... cut it down... and re tap the end... also an option

This post has been edited by BonzaiCelica: Nov 6, 2013 - 10:18 PM

[BonzaiCelica]

Information provided Enderswift!!! (however check the bottom of this post)

I also worked on creating inner tie rods that would allow me to use ST205 outer tie rods with a USDM steering rack. I measured the USDM rack and found a ~21" total length, whereas the ST205 rack measured roughly ~24". Therefore I had to create parts that were 1.5" longer than the ST205 rods.

Luckily USDM steering racks came with inner tie rods that were much longer than what is needed for the custom parts. So making inner tie rods that would work was only a matter of cutting the USDM rods to the right length, machining the proper diameter, and threading:


On top is an inner USDM tie rod after it has been cut short. It is 1.5 inches longer than the ST205 part below. Next step was to turn the piece to the proper size for threading.


Machining the diameter down.


Get ready for hands down, 'the' most exciting video you have ever seen. Ever


And here is the final product. Original ST205 rod on the left, new machined rod on the right. We later added flat spots to give the alignment guy something to put his wrench onto. For those considering this swap in the future, all you need is a USDM rod to be cut short and threaded. Any machine shop with a lathe can do this without a problem. All of this work just to have a little bulge in the outer tie rod.



However all this work that enderswift did was a waste of time and money as we now know (updated this description as of 11/18/2014). You can simply buy Supra/SC300/SC400 Inner Tie rods which are 8.98" inches and attach the outer superstrut end tie rods

This post has been edited by BonzaiCelica: May 31, 2023 - 6:19 PM

[BonzaiCelica]

concerning the bulge that you see in the superstrut outer tie rod. this would only be necessary if you decided to use McPherson 19mm ST OEM or 20mm GT OEM front sway bar with bending the ends in order for it to move vertically with the superstrut shock.

see this is McPherson sway bar and the steering wheel is turned all the way to the right.



and as you can see here from this pic with the steering wheel turned all the way to the right it doesn't even come close to touching the end link



so my guess is that toyota made that bend in superstrut outer tie rod for us future guys who wanted to convert the suspension and bend the end of the mcpherson sway bar and attach a custom made end link. haha just saying.

still doing some research and development on parts available here in USA for superstrut conversion.

to be continued...

This post has been edited by BonzaiCelica: Jun 13, 2015 - 4:22 PM

[BonzaiCelica]

information over load



Stock ST205 superstrut front spring and ST204/ST202 mcppherson springs are 30.5cm




OEM thin aluminum crush tubes vs Aftermarket Stainless steel Crush tubes from GT4OC.net



Superstrut Oil Filled Cartridges vs Mcpherson 6th gen Celica Gas filled Cartridges




Although the differences in length between both cartridges are different the overall length of where each cartridges fits into their own housing is the same. If you look at the picture I have with the inner housing depth of the super strut, it is 32.5cm (a bit longer so the oil can flow into the base of oil filled super strut cartridge) and the body length of McPherson cartridge is 33cm.

Mcpherson Cartridge will not fit into Superstrut housing because of the crimped sectioned toward the bottom end

I was able to fit my ST204 caliper and the caliper piston is loose so that's why it looks crooked. So I used 5 mm washers to space the rotor to center the rotor to the brake caliper bracket or you can use a 5mm spacer, but the lugs barely fit on there. I would recommend getting extended studs if you wish to drive the car or what would be best is to shave 5mm off the brake caliper mounting point on the gt4 knuckle. The circled part of the brake shield I had to hammer so that the bracket would sit properly. of course if you have the 275mm ss3/GT brake dust shields you won't need to hammer that part.

I had to force my ST204 abs sensor into the mounting point on the ST205 knuckle where abs sensor fits, but if you fit it into a ST202 superstrut knuckle, will work just fine (for some odd reason, still under research).




GT4 KNUCKLE mounting point for brake caliper


SS-III KNUCKLE mounting point for Caliper Bracket


The mounting points for the super strut bracket are slightly further away from the center of the knuckle in order to accommodate the bigger diameter superstrut bearing. So superstrut bracket is a bit more shallow which therefore seats/sits into superstrut knuckle different than McPherson bracket.
20230910_204021 by Justin Towers, on Flickr

GT4 Offset from back of mounting point for brake caliper


These SS-III brake pads are the same as 94-95 MR2 turbo pads (just to confirm http://www.fensport.co.uk/Parts/Model_27/Category_11/2672)



SS-III Offset from back of mounting point for brake caliper
20230906_220718 by Justin Towers, on Flickr

AS YOU CAN SEE THEY BOTH HAVE THE SAME OFFSET OF 7 Centimeters








these rear end links come from 2001-2003 Mazda Protege with sport suspension and are 16cm from center to center stud








So only downside i see too converting is that superstrut parts will add 18 lbs of unsprung weight to each side. So your front end will be 36 lbs heavier.

This post has been edited by BonzaiCelica: Sep 11, 2023 - 12:41 AM

[yellowchinaman]

WOW! Hold up!
So you are going from Macpherson to Superstrut?
Why?
Most of the Superstrut owners (mainly GT-Fours) want to go from Superstrut to Machperson mainly because of:
-High rebuild & maintenance cost
-Poor turning circle
-Short life span

[Rusty]

so my guess is that toyota made that bend in superstrut outer tie rod for us future guys who wanted to convert the suspension and bend the end of the mcpherson sway bar and attach a custom made end link. haha just saying.

also in theory, since steering rack overall length is the same between mcpherson and superstrut. there is no effect in steering turning radius. are we on the same page!? i hope so.

lol No, they would have done it for fitment & clearance.

FWIR the superstrut had a quick ratio rack. Its better to have a lower unsprung weight.

Agree, happens a lot over here with superstrut owners. Plus with the law changed so you cant do welded coilovers like the BC ones. The turning circle for the SS2 was something like 5m compared to 5.3m for the SS3.

Looks like you have a brakeline issue bonzai. Have you had the swaybar connected? I'm not sure a simple bend to your sway bar would make it work.

And a bit confused? You originally were going to swap to superstrut, then you didn't, then you bought superstrut parts, then you didn't and are trying to sell the parts, then you half pied swapped only one side in? So are you changing or not??

[BonzaiCelica]

chinaman. read the superstrut thread you can find my answer there.

rusty : yea i know superstrut has quicker ratio. no i won't do the conversion till i find out if we can source usa parts for the shock insert on superstrut shock. i only did once side in order to roll the car around(my mcphersonal knuckl hub went poop). i want this thread stickied once i get that last piece to this puzzle. superstrut isn't number one priority. if it happens great if it doesn't great. its a want not a need.

to this day i haven't seen one member who converted to front superstrut use mcpherson gt sway bar on it. so i'll be the first guinea pig.

This post has been edited by BonzaiCelica: Nov 22, 2014 - 1:05 AM

[enderswift]

Why do you want to use the gt swaybar?

[BonzaiCelica]

Why do you want to use the gt swaybar?

Just FYI :

-Stock SS-III Sway Bar = 14mm
-Stock GT4 Sway Bar = 15mm
-Tanabe GT4 Sway Bar = 17mm (discontinued)
-C-One GT4 Sway Bar = 18mm (discontinued)

-Stock ST204/ST202 mcpherson front sway bar = 20mm

[LimitedGT4]

Why do you want to use the gt swaybar?

Just FYI :

-Stock SS-III Sway Bar = 14mm
-Stock GT4 Sway Bar = 15mm
-Tanabe GT4 Sway Bar = 17mm (discontinued)
-C-One GT4 Sway Bar = 18mm (discontinued)

-Stock ST204/ST202 mcpherson front sway bar = 20mm

If you are refering to their strength by their thickness. The important thing is what are they made of? My friend said the same thing to me and initially i used the st sway bar for same reason. I can honestly say, the gt4 feels stronger and more stiff after all gt4 had higher quality parts unless im confused. If your not talking about its strength then disregard this post lol

[njccmd2002]

apparently superstrut parts here in the US are cheap!

[enderswift]

Why do you want to use the gt swaybar?

Just FYI :

-Stock SS-III Sway Bar = 14mm
-Stock GT4 Sway Bar = 15mm
-Tanabe GT4 Sway Bar = 17mm (discontinued)
-C-One GT4 Sway Bar = 18mm (discontinued)

-Stock ST204/ST202 mcpherson front sway bar = 20mm

ah gotcha, I'm gonna stick with the dinky oem swaybar to minimize the understeer I'll no doubt have