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Enthusiast ![]() ![]() Joined Apr 7, '15 From New Mexico Currently Offline Reputation: 0 (0%) ![]() |
I am shopping around for a 3sgte and I have a few questions I am having problems getting an answer for: 1. Does it matter if I get a 3sgte with an automatic or manual transmission ECU? (My Celica is an manual) 2. Which is better, a CT26 or the CT15B that comes with the motor? Everywhere I am reading they are very similar in performance. Does anyone have real world comparison of the two? 3. What are the best seals to replace on the motor before I drop it in the car? (I plan to do the rear main seal, oil pump seal, timing belt, thermostat, and oil pan seal at a minimum) The motor will have 50-60k miles. 4. Is there anything I should watch out for when picking my 4th gen 3sgte? Are there any gotchas that I need to be prepared for with this swap? 5. What is the resistor-tachometer fix that I keep hearing about? 6. With regular maintenance and the occasional track day how long should I expect the motor and turbo to last before needed a major overhaul? I am hoping to pull the trigger on the motor some time in October, then gather the rest of the parts I need, and get the wiring harness done through the rest of the fall/winter. I will also be parting out what I do not need from the 5sfe since besides the rods and pistons, the rest of the engine is good. I did some looking around the 6gc.net site and found the following thread: http://www.6gc.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=75910&st=0 It answered questions 2, 3, and 4. Could someone point me in the right direction to get the rest of the questions answered? |
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![]() Enthusiast ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Joined Aug 31, '02 From Philadelphia, PA Currently Offline Reputation: 8 (100%) ![]() |
1. The ecu is slightly different between the automatic and manual versions of the car. The automatic might throw a CEL if there are some specific automatic sensors that it looks for. Personally I would just buy the manual version.
5. You need to modify the signal to the stock tach to make it read correctly. There should be an old post about it somewhere. 6. I installed my 2nd gen motor in 2004 and have since put about 110k miles since the swap. They are pretty reliable as far as turbo motors are concerned. Just make sure your seller provides you with compression test numbers and startup warranty. Keep in mind that with the 4th gen motor you need to fully rewire the harness, while a 3rd gen motor is basically plug and play with the exception of about 4 wires. I would personally go with the 3rd gen motor. -------------------- 15PSI - 30MPG - Megasquirt Tuned
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Enthusiast ![]() ![]() Joined May 2, '15 From NY Currently Offline Reputation: 3 (100%) ![]() |
Thanks for sharing the experience.
Having performed an autopsy on the engine, were you able to determine the cause of the demise? Fuel mixture problem? Timing problem? To answer one of your questions: 1 (auto vs man ecu) Auto ECU will throw CEL for transmission shift solenoids. You can install a few large-ish resistors to overcome this - you can find details in some Gen3 Camry auto-to-manual swap threads. No impact on engine performance. Yes, easier to go with Manual ECU in the first place if you can, but not the end of the world if you cannot source one. |
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Enthusiast ![]() ![]() Joined Apr 7, '15 From New Mexico Currently Offline Reputation: 0 (0%) ![]() |
Thanks for sharing the experience. Having performed an autopsy on the engine, were you able to determine the cause of the demise? Fuel mixture problem? Timing problem? To answer one of your questions: 1 (auto vs man ecu) Auto ECU will throw CEL for transmission shift solenoids. You can install a few large-ish resistors to overcome this - you can find details in some Gen3 Camry auto-to-manual swap threads. No impact on engine performance. Yes, easier to go with Manual ECU in the first place if you can, but not the end of the world if you cannot source one. I think the problem started with the rod knock on cylinder #4 from the first time I pulled the engine. That was caused by an oil flow issue from using the stock oil pump. If you turbo a 5sfe you need to get a 98+ camry/solara oil pump and shim the relief valve. When I recently pulled the motor again and took the engine apart I found the following issues. 1. Rod #1 had some small play in it so that was where the knock was coming from 2. Rod #4 had a spun bearing My guess is that either the rod or the crank was no longer round on those 2 cylinders and replacing the bearings was not going to fix the problem. What I should have done when I pulled the motor the first time was have the crank and rods machined to a set clearance and buy the proper bearings from there. Lesson learned, like I said I am done with the 5sfte and am excited to go 4th gen 3sgte. I am currently parting out the engine on Ebay and have a thread on it here: http://www.6gc.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=97194 As for the 3sgte, it is funny you bring that up. I just pulled the trigger on a 4th gen 3sgte with a manual transmission ECU. I decided to go with that ECU because the engine it came with was in the best shape. I will pull the 3s wiring harness and send it off to Wiregap with the 5s harness once the engine arrives. While they are building my new harness I plan to get the tune up kit from MR2 Prime and the 3" downpipe. I plan to reuse my Spec clutch disk off the 5sfe because it maybe has 1500 miles on it since I installed it and get a 3s pressure plate and lightweight flywheel. I know I said I planned to wait on the 3sgte for a few months but a great deal for one came up. When I walk by my Celica with an empty engine bay everyday on my way to work, it drives me crazy. Also, seeing all these 5sfte parts sitting next to the car does not help either. ![]() ![]() To be continued. . . ![]() This post has been edited by HardHead93: Oct 6, 2016 - 10:56 PM |
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Enthusiast ![]() ![]() Joined Apr 7, '15 From New Mexico Currently Offline Reputation: 0 (0%) ![]() |
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Enthusiast ![]() ![]() Joined Apr 7, '15 From New Mexico Currently Offline Reputation: 0 (0%) ![]() |
Does anyone have any tips for cleaning and painting an engine bay? I have burn marks from an old engine fire. Now that the engine is out of the car I would like to clean some of that mess up. ![]() Nevermind, I got my questions answered in this thread: http://www.6gc.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=97213 |
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Enthusiast ![]() ![]() Joined Apr 7, '15 From New Mexico Currently Offline Reputation: 0 (0%) ![]() |
I am really excited my 4th gen 3sgte came in today. I inspected it and it looks good to go. The only problem was they sent an automatic transmission ECU instead of manual. Oh well, it will still work. I guess a lot of other guys run A/T ECUs too.
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() This post has been edited by HardHead93: Oct 11, 2016 - 7:53 PM |
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Enthusiast ![]() ![]() Joined May 2, '15 From NY Currently Offline Reputation: 3 (100%) ![]() |
Nice!
Some will argue that auto engines are better as auto tranny won't let you molest the engine as much. Of course, that's just one of the million factors in play, but maybe it's true in your case. |
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Enthusiast ![]() ![]() Joined Apr 7, '15 From New Mexico Currently Offline Reputation: 0 (0%) ![]() |
I got the valve cover off and the wiring sent off to wire gap. In the meantime I am going to swap the downpipes and replace the seals.
![]() Nice! Some will argue that auto engines are better as auto tranny won't let you molest the engine as much. Of course, that's just one of the million factors in play, but maybe it's true in your case. Good to hear, I am hoping after I freshen up the motor, I get 100K miles with little to no problems. Toyota motors will run forever if you keep up the maintenance. This post has been edited by HardHead93: Oct 16, 2016 - 10:06 AM |
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Enthusiast Joined Aug 28, '12 From nj Currently Offline Reputation: 0 (0%) ![]() |
Wow, you are relentless.. Can't wait for this write up. This is the swap I want to go with. Keep us posted. Good Luck.
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Enthusiast ![]() ![]() Joined Apr 7, '15 From New Mexico Currently Offline Reputation: 0 (0%) ![]() |
Wow, you are relentless.. Can't wait for this write up. This is the swap I want to go with. Keep us posted. Good Luck. I wish I would have went this route from the beginning. It definitely would have saved me a lot of headaches. I cannot wait until I have this beast back on the road. |
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Enthusiast ![]() ![]() Joined Apr 7, '15 From New Mexico Currently Offline Reputation: 0 (0%) ![]() |
I have started the process of breaking down the engine so it is ready to go once the tune up kit arrives from MR2 Prime. Below is a picture of the timing belt before I removed it. This will make it easier for me to reinstall it when the time comes.
![]() Below are some pics of the motor taken down to the point I need it to be. ![]() ![]() ![]() I removed the upper and lower oil pain, oil pump, and camshaft gears. I plan to replace the following parts for the tune up: 1. Crankshaft seal rear 2. PCV grommet 3. Valve cover gaskets 4. Water pump and gasket 5. Timing belt - Sun brand 6. Timing belt tensioner 7. Thermostat and gasket 8. Spark plugs 9. Lower timing idler 10. Oil pump o-ring and seal 11. Camshaft Seals 12. Convert to 3 inch cat-less downpipe 13. Light weight flywheel 14. Axle Seals 15. Magnet Oil Pan plug I also picked up a JOBD to OBDII reader since the OBDII ports will output codes in JOBD format. |
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![]() Enthusiast ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Joined Aug 31, '02 From Philadelphia, PA Currently Offline Reputation: 8 (100%) ![]() |
Keep up the great work!
-------------------- 15PSI - 30MPG - Megasquirt Tuned
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Enthusiast ![]() ![]() Joined Apr 7, '15 From New Mexico Currently Offline Reputation: 0 (0%) ![]() |
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Enthusiast ![]() ![]() Joined Apr 7, '15 From New Mexico Currently Offline Reputation: 0 (0%) ![]() |
I got some of my goodies in for the swap.
![]() There is my lightweight flywheel, 3sgte pressure plate, and tach adapter. I plan to reuse my SPEC Stage 2 5sfe clutch disk because it only has about 3K miles on it. The tach adapter will ensure my tachometer works with the new different tach signal from the ECU. |
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Enthusiast ![]() ![]() Joined Apr 7, '15 From New Mexico Currently Offline Reputation: 0 (0%) ![]() |
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Enthusiast ![]() ![]() Joined Apr 7, '15 From New Mexico Currently Offline Reputation: 0 (0%) ![]() |
I got all my wiring back from Wiregap and it looks awesome! I started reassembling the engine and my goal it to have it back in the car by the end of the weekend.
![]() ![]() ![]() Getting to the oil pump is a pain in the butt. There are 2 oil pans on this motor (upper and lower) and they both have different torque specs. I used a liberal amount of FIPG to make sure I would have no leaks. Also, the water pump is a tough on too. I got some blue gasket maker for those seals to ensure I had no water leaks. After double and triple checking my torque specs with my handy Snap On torque wrench, I think the engine is ready to go back into the car. ![]() The wiring done by Wiregap fits great. You can tell they have done this before. Every wire was just the right length with very little slack. They even put the clips that attach to the intake manifold on to make it hang perfectly above the fuel injectors. |
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Enthusiast ![]() ![]() Joined Apr 7, '15 From New Mexico Currently Offline Reputation: 0 (0%) ![]() |
***
This post has been edited by HardHead93: Nov 12, 2016 - 8:56 PM |
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Enthusiast ![]() ![]() Joined Apr 7, '15 From New Mexico Currently Offline Reputation: 0 (0%) ![]() |
I was excited and ready to do this thing! I had the tranny attached to the 3sgte and I was ready to go.
![]() This turned into a tough day! I expected to be further along. ![]() ![]() This post has been edited by HardHead93: Nov 12, 2016 - 9:45 PM |
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Enthusiast ![]() ![]() Joined Apr 7, '15 From New Mexico Currently Offline Reputation: 0 (0%) ![]() |
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