I am just going to run low boost. . . yea right!, A warning for anyone who wants to boost a 5sfe Options

[Box]

Just finished reading everything, glad to see you were able to save the motor and hopefully now with the higher pressure oil pump you won't have any more issues. Given the circumstances I think you made the right and least expensive choice.

[enderswift]

You will absolutely LOVE that differential. I installed one into my S54 and it completely transformed the car. It is now a potent track machine and I love being able to use the 300hp whenever I want. Enjoy!


Just dont wheel hop or you'll bust teeth off of your gears... Ask me how I know...

[HardHead93]

You will absolutely LOVE that differential. I installed one into my S54 and it completely transformed the car. It is now a potent track machine and I love being able to use the 300hp whenever I want. Enjoy!


Just dont wheel hop or you'll bust teeth off of your gears... Ask me how I know...

That is a little scary. What can I do to prevent wheel hop? I hear stiffer motor mounts should help.

[enderswift]

poly engine mounts help... at the expense of smoothness I'm told. Personally I found that poly suspension mounts and sticky tires to be the biggest help without sacrificing comfort/smoothness

Also just be mindful and let off the power slightly if you start to hop. Don't try to ride it out like I did (I powered through wheel hop at the drag strip)

[HardHead93]

poly engine mounts help... at the expense of smoothness I'm told. Personally I found that poly suspension mounts and sticky tires to be the biggest help without sacrificing comfort/smoothness

Also just be mindful and let off the power slightly if you start to hop. Don't try to ride it out like I did (I powered through wheel hop at the drag strip)

How about these poly mounts?
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Toyota-Celica-ST20...E-/201640326281?
Do you have bad engine vibrations with the stiffer mounts?

[HardHead93]

I just discovered a really stupid mistake while I was road tuning the car. My speedometer is off. Come to find out, I used the MR2 LSD speedo gear instead of the S54 open diff gear. DOH! While I was driving I saw the speedometer shooting up fast. Once it got to 80 mph, I knew something was off because I definitely wasn't going 80 mph. There is one of those speed sensor signs close to my house so I decided to drive past one. My speedometer read 55 mph while the sign was around 41-42 mph. I did some research and found out the MR2 speedo gear from the E153 has 30 teeth, while the S54 has 23 teeth. I do not feel like taking the engine back out and popping the tranny open again so I am looking to grab a speedo adjustment module. I was planning on upgrading the wheels and tires in a few months so I would need it anyways. Anyone have any suggestions on a good module? I am looking at the Dakota Digital one. Here is the link: http://www.dakotadigital.com/index.cfm/pag...prod/prd126.htm

[JordyTurbo]

This is a cautionary tale to anyone who thinks they are going to slap a turbo on a high mileage engine and run low boost. DON’T DO IT! In December of 2014 despite all the posts that say, don’t boost your engine unless it is low mileage or rebuilt, I went for it. Is the 5sfe a great engine to boost, yes, but do it right. This post will tell the LONG, expensive, frustrating story to creating my 5sfte. The below write up is what happened.

Background
It has been a long road for this 5sfte build. Here is the engine I started with:


I saw what Supershannon77 did with an Ebay T3/4 turbo for her 6th gen Celica 5sfte and I tried to duplicate it (with a few upgrades). I bought an Ebay kit with the idea that I would need to modify or replace some of the parts that came in it but the bottom line was it would give me a turbo, intercooler, exhaust manifold, downpipe, and some miscellaneous needed parts.

As I started the build I found the kit seriously lacking. The big one was the downpipe was for a CT26 turbo not a T3/4 so I had to order one. There was no oil return line and there was not enough intercooler piping. It took 3 months to resolve all the issues with the advertised “bolt-on” kit (there is no such thing as bolt on from Ebay), I ended up with the following build:


8 psi boost
T3/T04E Turbo
Turbosmart Wastegate
2.5 inch full exhaust
Magnaflow Muffler and Catalytic Converter
AEM FIC Piggyback
SSQV Blow Off Valve
460cc RX-7 Injectors
FMIC
Walpro 255 Fuel Pump
3sgte 3 Bar MAP Sensor
Custom downpipe from Demon Motorsports
Ebay tubular exhaust manifold

I started noticing when I would pop the hood after a drive that there was an extreme amount of heat coming out of the engine bay. I also saw that the under hood insulation was burning away. After doing some digging, I found that the tubular manifold I was using was giving off too much heat instead of shooting it down to the exhaust. I needed a 3sgte manifold. I went to the Toyota dealership and they told me that all their warehouses are out of stock and that the best bet was to find a used one. That led to one option, Ebay. After about a week of missing out on bids I finally scored a 3sgte manifold. It arrived and I was so excited, I ceramic coated it and put it on and the car was back!


Then another problem reared its head, the clutch started slipping. I bought a SPEC stage 2 clutch, got it installed and the car ran like a champ. In the process of tuning the car, I sprung a fuel leak that lead to an engine fire. I think it the Walpro fuel pump put too much pressure on the original lines coming from the fuel filter and something popped.




Now here I am, where I should have started. In hindsight I should have rebuilt the engine before going down the turbo route. My plan was to fix the fire damage and rebuild the engine to a 14-15 psi boost-able monster. My goal is 280-300 horsepower. Based on what I saw in Pressure2’s build, I can use stock pistons and rods but I will need a metal head gasket. I planned to swap the California cylinder head with a Federal head so the fuel injectors fit perfectly.

I read the post I'm happy you didn't give up ..you out so much work into that motor you now have an emotional connection to that engine I hope all works man great write up

[HardHead93]

Now I am getting a weird ticking noise under load, it is not RPM specific. It happens I start from a dead stop or whenever I get on the gas but not when I am cruising. I have checked and adjusted my camshaft clearances and they are now in spec. I also dropped the oil pan and checked the rod and main bearing and nothing has spun or is damaged. I re-torqued the exhaust manifold nuts and the exhaust nuts on the turbo. What else could I check?

[lagos]

Video of the noise would help.

[HardHead93]

Video of the noise would help.

Here is the video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2WNzhiM2IwI...eature=youtu.be

You can faintly hear it behind the exhaust and turbo spool noise. I tried my best to get it to happen a few times in the video. Also, the ticking happens on a cold start. It makes about 3-4 ticks on a cold start then goes away. The ticking seems the loudest when under load in 1st or 2nd gear. Like I said in my earlier post, I am lost as to what it could be. By the way I have newly installed 294 Webcams on the motor, they are only 2 months old.

This post has been edited by HardHead93: Sep 7, 2016 - 7:58 PM

[lagos]

Hmm it's hard to say for sure. I've had similar sounds coming from the downpipe support bracket that mounts to the engine. However you did do a pretty extensive rebuild. I would pick up a stethoscope to rule out any head or bottom end noises.

https://www.amazon.com/ABN-Mechanics-Stetho...ive+stethoscope

[HardHead93]

Hmm it's hard to say for sure. I've had similar sounds coming from the downpipe support bracket that mounts to the engine. However you did do a pretty extensive rebuild. I would pick up a stethoscope to rule out any head or bottom end noises.

https://www.amazon.com/ABN-Mechanics-Stetho...ive+stethoscope

Thanks! I will pick one of those stethoscopes and do some digging. What is weird is that ever since I beat on the car to make the video for you to listen to, the sound has gotten quieter and is almost gone. Could the sound be from the fact that I have not had a chance to really break the motor in due to all the issues I have been dealing with on the car?

[lagos]

You shouldn't be hearing anything during break in, but odd noises are bound to pop after ripping the motor out. I've had things like axle bearing mount, downpipe, timing belt bearings, suspension, etc... make odd noises in the past.

[HardHead93]

Well, I am official fed up with this engine. The ticking turned into knocking and it is no doubt it is rod knock. I checked the engine with a stethoscope and that confirmed it. I am done with the 5sfte, time to get a new motor. I am going 4th gen 3sgte. It was a great learning experience but I am tired of the headaches of this motor. What did I learn from this experience:

1. If you are going to turbo an engine go standalone from the start!
2. Don't be in a hurry, rushing only leads to mistakes that can cost later
3. Go with a forged low compression bottom end from the start, you are going to want more boost, trust me!
4. Listen to the experienced folks on 6gc.net, they have a lot of knowledge and experience
5. Because of this build, I went from a person who had only changed spark plugs and drained fluids to a person who is comfortable with getting dirty with a motor and pulling an engine when needed.
6. Lastly, your engine is not some magical Initial D machine just because you worked on it. You need to treat the engine with respect and know its limits.

I am going to take some time off from working on this car. It will give me time to gather parts and get a master plan together for this swap. I am thinking I will pick this up again sometime in the spring. Thanks for everyone who helped me out with their knowledge. I will either update this thread or start a new one once I begin the swap. Below is the latest picture of my dead 5sfte.

[lagos]

Sorry to hear about the problems, but glad that you see it as a good learning experience !

Overall, the 3sgte swap is pretty hard to beat and I think you'll love it when its all done.

[trdproven]

Too bad it was a really nice 5sfte setup

[jordisonjr]

5. Because of this build, I went from a person who had only changed spark plugs and drained fluids to a person who is comfortable with getting dirty with a motor and pulling an engine when needed.

This interests me. Where did you learn everything about what you were doing? Just reading on the forum here, or did you just figure it out as you go? (or both)

I've always considered doing a swap and may need to in the near future, however, like you did, I have very limited mechanical experience, aside from changing various suspensions parts, changing spark plugs and fluid changes.

I always think about it a swap, and what I would do if I got to a point where I got stuck, and how I would get the problem solved.

[HardHead93]

5. Because of this build, I went from a person who had only changed spark plugs and drained fluids to a person who is comfortable with getting dirty with a motor and pulling an engine when needed.

This interests me. Where did you learn everything about what you were doing? Just reading on the forum here, or did you just figure it out as you go? (or both)

I've always considered doing a swap and may need to in the near future, however, like you did, I have very limited mechanical experience, aside from changing various suspensions parts, changing spark plugs and fluid changes.

I always think about it a swap, and what I would do if I got to a point where I got stuck, and how I would get the problem solved.

When doing this build I read a lot of forums and asked a lot of questions on this forum and to local mechanics. The problem with the 5sfte swap is unless you go "all in" you are going to head down a rabbit hole that is going to take up a lot of your time and money. Now by "all in," I mean rebuild the engine with forged internals, go standalone ECU instead of piggyback, ensure you have a federal emissions cylinder head, get a high flow oil pump, get a high flow fuel pump, etc. Going with a 3sgte swap is a good idea because you are buying an engine that is made for performance and boost. The best places to get information are on this forum and a lot of the MR2 forums. Also, check out this video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jBHJZ_x0neI

It is of a person in his garage taking out a 5sfe from a Camry and rebuilding it. This video got me comfortable with pulling the motor out of my car. Some of the videos are blocked because of the music playing in the background so you may have to use a proxy server to view them all.
Another good video is this one:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tz4hnJp7gxk

This video breaks down everything you need to put a 3sgte into a MR2. The nice thing about this video is that he also talks about the compatibility with the S54 transmission which comes on the 5sfe. I would also suggest buying a Haynes and Chilton manual. You will need them both because each one explains parts of the car differently. Most importantly, you need to ensure you have the proper tools for this job.

[jordisonjr]

Cool man, thanks for the tips!
Whatever you end up doing with the car; swapping or salvaging this motor, be sure to continue this thread! It was a good read.

[HardHead93]

I am shopping around for a 3sgte and I have a few questions I am having problems getting an answer for:

1. Does it matter if I get a 3sgte with an automatic or manual transmission ECU? (My Celica is an manual)
2. Which is better, a CT26 or the CT15B that comes with the motor? Everywhere I am reading they are very similar in performance. Does anyone have real world comparison of the two?
3. What are the best seals to replace on the motor before I drop it in the car? (I plan to do the rear main seal, oil pump seal, timing belt, thermostat, and oil pan seal at a minimum) The motor will have 50-60k miles.
4. Is there anything I should watch out for when picking my 4th gen 3sgte? Are there any gotchas that I need to be prepared for with this swap?
5. What is the resistor-tachometer fix that I keep hearing about?
6. With regular maintenance and the occasional track day how long should I expect the motor and turbo to last before needed a major overhaul?

I am hoping to pull the trigger on the motor some time in October, then gather the rest of the parts I need, and get the wiring harness done through the rest of the fall/winter. I will also be parting out what I do not need from the 5sfe since besides the rods and pistons, the rest of the engine is good.

This post has been edited by HardHead93: Sep 23, 2016 - 10:42 PM