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> Im looking to get a..., AE86
post Apr 19, 2004 - 10:34 AM
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Exile04



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Is that any good some guy around me is selloing alot of these engines, He says he has to silvertops for $500 dollars are those any good he also said i can get another engine with more balls but more money. I dotn want to spend very much money on the engine sice it will cost alot to swap it. IF i do get this engien will i need to get a new tranny?
post Apr 19, 2004 - 10:44 AM
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sinner96ST



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You'll have to ask coomer about this. He's one out of a handful of people who have done the swap. I believe you can use the trans from the ST, but you need to fabricate power steering mounts for the pump, and possibly relocate it or do some bs with it to get it to work right. If you can't piss away money, I wouldn't get near a swap.

This post has been edited by sinner96ST: Apr 19, 2004 - 10:44 AM
post Apr 19, 2004 - 2:51 PM
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Jabberwock

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Silver top is the one coomer has, but thats not from a AE86. Silver top is 20 valves? and the AE86 has 16 valves. Silver top came out in the early 90's I think.

$500 is a good price but is it just for the engine?
post Apr 19, 2004 - 5:05 PM
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toyotaspeed_90

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no ae86 came with a silvertop..... NONE.... all ae86's stateside got a bluetop t-vis (weaker block) 4a-ge, 115hp

now, if you're saying you want to get an ae86 and then put a silvertop in it, that's a whole different story, but i don't think that's what you're saying....

for simplicity sake, get a smallport 4a-ge (16v).... i put out 10hp less than an mr2 with a silvertop 20V.... and my swap was bout 1/2 the cost of coomers...... just isn't worth it IMO....
post Apr 19, 2004 - 5:48 PM
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Exile04



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So is it a good buy on the 16valve for $500 he said about 100,xxx miles i think? Just the engien im preatty sure.
post Apr 19, 2004 - 7:13 PM
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Kwanza26



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QUOTE (Exile04 @ Apr 19, 2004 - 10:48 PM)
So is it a good buy on the 16valve for $500 he said about 100,xxx miles i think? Just the engien im preatty sure.

A 16V small port... 500 sounds fair if it's a complete longblock. If it's a bigport... too expensive. FYI... I bought my JDM smallport for 300.00 out the door from Venus Auto...


--------------------
"It's ok to be naked girl... I'm an artist!"

1995 AT200 Celica ST: stocked out daily driver...

1984 AE86 Corolla GT-SR5: silvertop 20V 4AGE project car jacked up with goodies...

1991 SW2x MR2 n/a: bare bones hardtop model soon to be...
post Apr 19, 2004 - 11:35 PM
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toyotaspeed_90

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$500 for a 100,000 motor isn't all that great...... i picked up my low mileage smallport for $400 for longblock & cut harness
post Apr 20, 2004 - 1:54 AM
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Exile04



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HMMM.ok ill find out whats all included.
post Apr 20, 2004 - 1:53 PM
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toyotaspeed_90

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just to let you know.... a silvertop with a full uncut harness, ecu, and all needed electronics isn't going to be cheap

also, i know of some engine importers in the seattle area (i picked up my smallport from a shop in kent.... low mileage from japan), and i got mine for $400 (just the longblock with cut harness)
post Apr 20, 2004 - 5:57 PM
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Exile04



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how many hores adn stuff like that with that engine? NAd how much did the install cost.
post Apr 20, 2004 - 8:06 PM
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toyotaspeed_90

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i did the install.... i put out 109.6hp at the wheels with a very broad HP curve..... and (although my car is lighter) i kept up with coomer just fine....
post Apr 20, 2004 - 10:18 PM
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Exile04



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so im not really gaining anything from it?
post Apr 20, 2004 - 10:39 PM
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toyotaspeed_90

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QUOTE (Exile04 @ Apr 21, 2004 - 3:18 AM)
so im not really gaining anything from it?

um... your 7a-fe MIGHT put out 95whp...... i gained probably 30+ HP, plus another 1,600 rpm's and it revs up a lot faster as well....

btw.... i rev to 7800 all the time w/o any problems..... in fact, the mr2's didn't even have a rev limiter

This post has been edited by toyotaspeed_90: Apr 20, 2004 - 10:39 PM
post Apr 20, 2004 - 11:23 PM
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Coomer



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QUOTE (toyotaspeed_90 @ Apr 20, 2004 - 5:06 PM)
i did the install.... i put out 109.6hp at the wheels with a very broad HP curve..... and (although my car is lighter) i kept up with coomer just fine....

I'm guessing that you're talking about when we were getting on the freeway onramp up in Bellingham and I was behind you. wink.gif Do you remember if you started off accelerating in first or second gear?


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post Apr 21, 2004 - 1:09 AM
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sinner96ST



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coomer & toyspeed, 2 questions -

1) do you regret swapping?
2) had you been in a 3s / 4a powered ride before you both swapped?

i'm curious because people usually say the 4a swap is disappointing, to say the least. i read about coomers problem w/ his bonehead mechanic, but besides that, are you happy with it or would you have rather gone w/ the 3s?

This post has been edited by sinner96ST: Apr 21, 2004 - 1:10 AM
post Apr 21, 2004 - 1:44 AM
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Coomer



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QUOTE (sinner96ST @ Apr 20, 2004 - 10:09 PM)
coomer & toyspeed, 2 questions -

1) do you regret swapping?
2) had you been in a 3s / 4a powered ride before you both swapped?

i'm curious because people usually say the 4a swap is disappointing, to say the least. i read about coomers problem w/ his bonehead mechanic, but besides that, are you happy with it or would you have rather gone w/ the 3s?

1. I don't regret doing my swap. It took forever, but it really didn't cost me too much, and I'm pretty happy with the engine now. My Honda ricer buddies all think it's just an amazing engine, because they call it "the Toyota B16A", and they love Civics with B16A swaps. But everyone in the know hassles me and tells me how stupid I am for going with a 20 valve 4A-GE instead of a 4A-GZE or a 3S-GTE, not realizing that due to insurance and parental implications, I can't have a car with forced induction. They also don't realize most of the time that my stock engine and tranny was dead, and I would've had to replace it anyway.

I'd rather have gone 3S-GTE, but it just was not possible for me.

2. I'd driven a MK1 MR2 with a stock 4A-GE a long time ago, but at the time I didn't even realize that it was 4A-GE-powered. I've never ridden in any 3S-GTE or 4A-GE/4A-GZE powered vehicle besides that one prior to starting my swap.


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post Apr 21, 2004 - 1:48 AM
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QUOTE (sinner96ST @ Apr 21, 2004 - 6:09 AM)
coomer & toyspeed, 2 questions -
1) do you regret swapping?
2) had you been in a 3s / 4a powered ride before you both swapped?
i'm curious because people usually say the 4a swap is disappointing, to say the least. i read about coomers problem w/ his bonehead mechanic, but besides that, are you happy with it or would you have rather gone w/ the 3s?

You can't compare the 2 motors that way. With the street racing FAD these days... of course the 3SGTE can walk all over the 4AG "out of the box"... but 4AG's NEVER were a high-powered motor to begin with... nor was that its real offer. If you've ever driven a 4AG powered car... they're a joy to drive. The motors scream (even though they don't generate any excessive power... it sure feels like it)... It's just fun watching the tach jump from idle to 7800 within a second and again back to 7800 a few seconds after that... After 20 some odd years... it's still a VERY VERY popular tuning motor today, across several generations. They can be built... but their popularity isn't in their "high-powered" ability.

Aside from that... from a performance standpoint... the 4AG would make a better track engine than a 3SGTE. Turbos make great power... but sometimes... on some tracks... they're rendered nearly useless cause you just can't really step on it without the thought of losing grip all the way through a corner. As for all-out acceleration... well... the power will hang it all out there. I wouldn't try to build a 4AG powered drag car...

If I were to swap into my celica... I'd go 7AG hybrid (basically 4AG head on a 7AF block)... Get a bit of the torque, and get the high-revving free-flowing 4AG attitude. Throw on some 270+ duration cams in the 8mm lift range... and you'll have a streetable 7AG hybrid that can potentially lay down around 150 whp with a very nice torque band around 130 ftlbs that never drops off...


--------------------
"It's ok to be naked girl... I'm an artist!"

1995 AT200 Celica ST: stocked out daily driver...

1984 AE86 Corolla GT-SR5: silvertop 20V 4AGE project car jacked up with goodies...

1991 SW2x MR2 n/a: bare bones hardtop model soon to be...
post Apr 21, 2004 - 1:51 AM
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toyotaspeed_90

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i've never ridden in any 3s-gte cars, but i've been in cars racing next to them (yes, back when i used to streetrace)

also, don't forget.... i have a 90 corolla sr5.... this bodystyle was meant to have a 4a-ge in it.... and i absolutely do not regret it..... i love the sound of the motor, and the free-revving of the n/a.... i can heel-toe 1000X better with the new motor..... i barely touch the throttle and the rpm's (when clutch is in) will jump to 4,000 w/o trying at all.....

also, i plan on building it n/a for auto-x/road course purposes and wanted n/a because of that. (ask coomer, i took him for a ride before his 20V was done and, well, i had him grabbing for the oh **** handle around some corners wink.gif ) and i wanted good smooth acceleration and good balance.... which IMO a turbo isn't good at
post Apr 21, 2004 - 2:39 AM
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sinner96ST



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Yeah, i'm not disrespecting either engine, they are both great toyota engines, i was just wondering with the hp figure that toyspeed posted, if it was worth it or not.

Of course the 3s would walk over the 4a, it comes with a factory turbo, unfortunately the problems associated with boosting also comes with it. I was wondering about the 4a because I rarely hear about any 6gc members with them, let alone any built ones.
post Apr 21, 2004 - 5:28 PM
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Exile04



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Hey toyota speed i still ahve to talk to my dad about the motor insance wise but i m getting up to 130,000 miles and i think its time for a new motor because mine is kind falling apart, my belts are squeking my car vibrates o nteh driver side when stopped...that kinda thing. Ummm maybe if ur going to the car show and the meet we can talk about talkign to the peope u talked to about a engine...if u dotn mind. Also what comes with it like will i need to buy anything else other then the motor to gettign it working.

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