 3sgte questions and answers, find out all u need to know |
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 Jun 13, 2004 - 2:54 AM
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Enthusiast Joined Jun 13, '04 From NV Currently Offline Reputation: 0 (0%)  |
Aight all i have is some basic questions and im beggin some1 to take the time to answer them
 . I have a 96 Celica (ST204) and ive been looking to swap with a 3sgte engine but i have many questions. Here thery r: first one is where is the best place to get one? 2.when i go to look fer them it gives me dif chasi codes like ST 185 and ST205 and stuff which one is the right one fer my car?? 3.Im assuming this but do i need to buy the engind from a celica of can i also buy it from a MR2 and if so is it going to fit my current motor mounts. PLZ IM BEGGING FER SOME 1 TO ANSWER THESE QUESTIONS IM SO CONFUSED  AND THE WORST PART IS I AM SO CLOSE TO HAVING ENOUPH MONEY TO BUY A 3SGTE ENGINE
This post has been edited by CaRson-Masta: Jun 13, 2004 - 4:26 AM |
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Jun 13, 2004 - 5:01 AM
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 Enthusiast  Joined Oct 1, '02 From Seattle, WA Currently Offline Reputation: 0 (0%) |
for the answers to these questions, check out the sticky topic at the top of this forum called "feasible engine swaps." Read about the 3sgte engine swap and below that the generations of the egine and what cars you can get them from for your celica. Finally, if you scroll to the very bottom of the page, it has links to a few places that you can go to to order the 3sgte you want or even a full front clip!
-------------------- Its Orville's Celica, i just drive it... |
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Jun 13, 2004 - 5:44 AM
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Enthusiast Joined Jun 13, '04 From NV Currently Offline Reputation: 0 (0%) |
aight theres still a couple question i got it is
1. there are only two lists with my year on it: 239 HP(Non-JDM '94-'99 Celica GT-Four), and, one other one 251 HP(JDM 96-98 Celica GT-Four) this still leaves me with one question wuts up with the codes ST185 and ST205 and such. 2.how do i fine the chasi codes that i need for my car like above?? But thanks fer ure advice |
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Jun 13, 2004 - 1:24 PM
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 Enthusiast Joined Dec 2, '02 From Portland, Oregon Currently Offline Reputation: 0 (0%) |
An ST185 is a 5th Generation Celica GT4. It has the 2nd Generation 3sgte in it.
 (Patrick Chinshue's st185 GT4)  Notice the top mount Air/Air intercooler The st205 is the 6th Gen Celica GT4. It has the 3rd Gen. 3sgte.  (Neoklis' st205 GT4)  (Magic's st205 GT4) Notice the top mount Water/Air Intercooler, which is much more efficient than the st185 air/air. |
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Jun 13, 2004 - 3:11 PM
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Enthusiast Joined Jan 17, '04 From Illinois Currently Offline Reputation: 0 (0%) |
pleasant answers to often asked questions....maybe coom's thread is working
-------------------- QUOTE(lagos @ Jul 10, 2006 - 1:55 PM) [snapback]454118[/snapback] i know your trying to do the right thing for your motor, but this is one of those times where you should just trust the guys who have had their swaps for a while and have done a ton of research into this. |
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Jun 13, 2004 - 3:35 PM
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Enthusiast Joined Jun 13, '04 From NV Currently Offline Reputation: 0 (0%) |
O sick thanks guys so basically i can by either one it just depends on how much Horse power im looking for and they both will fit my car perfect right?
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Jun 13, 2004 - 6:49 PM
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Enthusiast Joined Dec 2, '02 From Portland, Oregon Currently Offline Reputation: 0 (0%) |
haha...mine as well start the trend right?
Ok...first of all Carson, neither of these engines will fit perfectly in your 6th Gen Celica. Both of them will require rewiring, and some degree of modificatoin. The 3rd Gen. 3s (in the 6th Gen. GT4) is said to require alot more rewiring than the 2nd Gen. If this is true or not I cannot tell you as I havn't been able to pick anyone's brain that has done the 3rd Gen. swap. There are quite a few people, however, that have done the 2nd Gen. swap. Pretty much the only wiring that has to be done with the 2nd Gen. 3s swap is a lengthening of the entire 5th Gen. GT4 wiring harness, some splicing of the 6th gen. interior plugs onto the harness, and some splicing of a few of the 6th gen. sensors onto the harness. Odviously easier said than done. But from the sound of it you won't be doing the swap yourself so you probably won't have to be worrying about such things. Just make sure you get a competent person to do the swap for you. The only other discourager of the 3rd Gen. swap is that it was not put into production in the US market. This makes it really hard to get even basic parts for maintinance of the engine, as you'll have to contact places outside of the US to get the parts. The 2nd Gen. 3S-GTE was offered in the US, so any part that you would need is available at your local Toyota dealer. Now for the mechanical aspect. Your profile doesn't say wether you have a GT or an ST. If you have a GT alot of the work is already done for you. The motor mounts are already in place, your transmission will bolt up (more on this later), etc. Here is a small list (provided by Mike of topshelfracing.com aka Qatar11 on this site) of some of the modifications that will need to take place depending on if you have a GT or ST Modification list The transmission of a GT odviously isn't ready to handle a 225hp beast of an engine. It was meant to handle the 140hp that the 5S-FE engine produces in our Celicas. There is alot of discussion about how long a GT trans will hold up. But I think it is safe to say that you can use the Trans for the swap. but don't expect it to last long if you are running around at full throttle all the time. With my swap I like to look at it as if I'm using my GT trans to get familiar with my engine, just to put around and get a feel for the newness, and then when I'm ready to whip around I'll get an MR2 Trans., which is meant to handle the power. If you are seriously planning on doing this swap, then there are factors that should be taken into account about where the engine you are going to buy has come from, and what accessories you are getting with it. If you decide to go with the 2nd Gen. 3S-GTE, it is highly recommended that you get a JDM engine. Look at the top of the Engine/Transmission/Performance forum. You'll see Feasable Engine Swaps, this post by Coomer will give you some good info, as well as a couple importers that will carry JDM engines for sale. Otherwise do a google search for some importers, but be weary who you buy from. Its not guarenteed that you won't get ripped off. As long as you're careful you'll be fine. Do some snooping around on the forums and you'll find out what you need to look for in a good engine that will treat you well after it's installed. Secondly, it is also highly recommended that you get a front clip of an ST185 from Japan. By doing this you are getting a complete front half of a Celica. Aside from the coolness factor that includes being able to tell your friends that you bought half a car from Japan, you'll also get alot of necessary parts that would otherwise be hard to find if you just bought the engine. Such as the ECU, ignitor, resistor pack, etc, etc. It's not as hairy as it sounds. Buying a front clip actually isn't much more expensive than buying the engine alone, and it will save you ungodly amounts of time trying to source all the other little parts required for the swap. I hope this answers SOME of your questions, though it is in no way a full explination of the headaches that you will go through with the swap. If you are serious and want to learn more I suggest the Search option on these forums. The amount of info you will find is mind boggling. Good luck! |
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Jun 13, 2004 - 6:53 PM
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Enthusiast Joined Jan 17, '04 From Illinois Currently Offline Reputation: 0 (0%) |
The most practical advice that someone can give you on ST185 vs. ST205 is that the 3rd generation 3sgte was never used in a production car imported to America. As such, there are some parts that you will have to import when your car needs to be worked on. I looked for a long time for a finite list of parts that would need to be imported before I gave up. In that search, a reputable source told me that nearly every part in the head was different. That was enough for me to decide to go with the second generation 3sgte which is essentially the same engine that is in the 91-95 MR2 Turbos - just a better turbo. Now I know if I need parts, I can just call a U.S. Toyota dealer without the worry of importing (or go to a U.S. junkyard). Also, the swap is said to be easier for the 2nd gen - but you only need to worry about that if you are doing it yourself. (typed at the same time as Doge's post) This post has been edited by jgreening: Jun 13, 2004 - 6:55 PM -------------------- QUOTE(lagos @ Jul 10, 2006 - 1:55 PM) [snapback]454118[/snapback] i know your trying to do the right thing for your motor, but this is one of those times where you should just trust the guys who have had their swaps for a while and have done a ton of research into this. |
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Jun 13, 2004 - 8:31 PM
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Enthusiast Joined Jun 13, '04 From NV Currently Offline Reputation: 0 (0%) |
Aight well its clear that i should definetly go with the 2 gen 3sgte engine which im assuming comes from the 5 gen celica so is this what i should be looking for?
90-95 toyota-celica st185 3s-gte+5spawdmt (front clip) 225hp i found that from venus-auto and im assuming thats the right engine but can ne one tell me if that will for sure fit into my 96 celica GT ST204 Hatch? Thanks guys ive learned more about the 3sgte engine in one day than i have in like 2 years! Also i know bout a turbo made by burian and i was wondering if i should just go with that because it seems with labor costs and accesrories that this turbo may be the cheapest way to go and ill only lose around 20 HP between swaping the engine and buying the turbo. I would love if u guys could give me ure opinions on this.
This post has been edited by CaRson-Masta: Jun 13, 2004 - 8:34 PM |
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Jun 14, 2004 - 12:22 AM
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 Enthusiast Joined Dec 27, '03 From Nor Cal Currently Offline Reputation: 0 (0%) |
You can't just say "fit"... shoot... I can "fit" a 1UZFE (4.0 V8) transversly into a 6th gen chassi (xT20x) and oddly enough... will probably bolt-up to the trannies that bolt up to S series motors... however... that's not the discussion here. Refer back to Doge's post on "fitment".
You'll lose quite a bit more than just 20hp... but that all depends on what you're looking for. The 5SFE will not be as tough as the 3SGTE... nor will it have as much potential... but like I said... it all depends on your power goals and situation. My opinion... if you can't do the swap yourself (minus the harness even)... and you don't have a lot of money to pay someone else to do it... don't do the 3SGTE. It'll just be a big money pool. The Burien turbo kit should be do-able with a bit of know-how you can leanr on this site and will not cost as much as a 3SGTE swap... but that's a give and take thing... -------------------- "It's ok to be naked girl... I'm an artist!"
1995 AT200 Celica ST: stocked out daily driver... 1984 AE86 Corolla GT-SR5: silvertop 20V 4AGE project car jacked up with goodies... 1991 SW2x MR2 n/a: bare bones hardtop model soon to be... |
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