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 Sep 26, 2004 - 11:06 PM
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Enthusiast  Joined Feb 4, '04 From Tampa Currently Offline Reputation: 0 (0%)  |
I had a 94 ST and crashed it, then i traded the wreck plus $$ for a '93 Prelude Si. Itn not a vtec but its a 2.3 H23a. Let me tell you its way faster than my 6GC ST was any day. It even accelerates faster than my firiends '96 6gc GT. I was contemplating getting another GT but now im happy that I went Honda and bought my lude.
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Sep 26, 2004 - 11:07 PM
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Enthusiast Joined Feb 4, '04 From Tampa Currently Offline Reputation: 0 (0%) |
I had a 94 ST and crashed it, then i traded the wreck plus $$ for a '93 Prelude Si. Itn not a vtec but its a 2.3 H23a. Let me tell you its way faster than my 6GC ST was any day. It even accelerates faster than my firiends '96 6gc GT. I was contemplating getting another GT but now im happy that I went Honda and bought my lude.
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Sep 26, 2004 - 11:13 PM
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Enthusiast Joined Feb 4, '04 From Tampa Currently Offline Reputation: 0 (0%) |
sorry i posted twice
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Sep 26, 2004 - 11:16 PM
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Enthusiast Joined Jul 7, '04 From charlotte N.C. Currently Offline Reputation: 0 (0%) |
umm i own a 3rd gen 2.2l si currently so im gonna go ahead and talk and most of my friends own hondas and well guess what i drive them sometimes. so i do have a reason to talk. and running a free flow exaust (no cats and a 2.75") exaust you DO i repeat DO lost torque. also I DO frequent the honda boards. AND i feel that my celica WAS faster than my 3rd gen (keeping im mind the fact that it ISNT vtec and is auto) also what i mean about "thats why i hate hondas" guess what i was talking about honda motors not the h22 or the h22a's all hondas even the k seris motors even with basic mods and 200 to the wheels ill bet my celica made more torque than it. as for honda bashing you cant really say that either. i mean yeah i complained about the torque but i mean toyotas cant really make power in the high end on the other hand hondas can. -------------------- Former: 96 GT 5 speed (i/p/e) Fate- rear ended by mack truck
00 GTS 6 speed (i/ Bored TB 63mm - 68.5mm w/ butterfly/ Ported IM/ IMG/ PFC/ Commander/ datalogit/ Ported & heat wrapped Header/ Decat/ UEGO/) 193FWHP 14.2(1/4mi) @98mph, 2.12 60ft (just intake, unbolted Exhaust, and gutted) Fate- side swipped by 18 wheeler at 75mph. Next: maybe an elise |
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Sep 26, 2004 - 11:33 PM
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 Enthusiast Joined Dec 27, '03 From Nor Cal Currently Offline Reputation: 0 (0%) |
Are you testing my Honda knowledge? Hehe... first off... the 3rd gens only came in 2.0 and 2.1. We had a 91 2.1 SI with ABS (came with either ABS or 4WS) a few years back as a project car. Was a nice car, and was definately a lot faster than any Celica (well, most 4th-5th-6th gens). You are entitled to your opinion, but not all cars are created equally. The reason you lose torque... you're running a BLOODY HUGE exhaust. Any bigger than 2.25 on an n/a 4 cyclinder is overkill. Exhaust velocity means a lot. I did mention that didn't I? Maybe you should judge yourself also. And no... you'll get handed by the new Honda K series. They make more torque that your 5SFE. The 5SFE is just not designed to compete with those motors... so stop that argument. The Honda K series is probably one of the best n/a 4 cylinders built to date. They make almost as much horsepower per liter as the S2000 F20C, their torque response is definately better, and they have stock forged internals, are a perfect square design, and can easily rev up to 9k rpms. What's not to love? As far as hating Hondas... give me a better reason than "low torque" as to why you dislike hondas. Tell me they burn oil, tell me their valves leak after a while, tell me anything aside from "low torque" and I won't fight you. Finally, that last part of your topic is completely opposite of everything you just said... so figure it out man... Good riddence... This post has been edited by Kwanza26: Sep 26, 2004 - 11:33 PM -------------------- "It's ok to be naked girl... I'm an artist!"
1995 AT200 Celica ST: stocked out daily driver... 1984 AE86 Corolla GT-SR5: silvertop 20V 4AGE project car jacked up with goodies... 1991 SW2x MR2 n/a: bare bones hardtop model soon to be... |
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Sep 27, 2004 - 12:10 AM
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Enthusiast Joined Jul 10, '03 From Appleton,WI Currently Offline Reputation: 0 (0%) |
Kwanza is my hero...
--------------------  A Jaws4God Creation... |
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Sep 27, 2004 - 12:21 AM
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Enthusiast Joined Jul 7, '04 From charlotte N.C. Currently Offline Reputation: 0 (0%) |
oh im not done, ive yet to make a complete fool of myself.
nope i didnt say anything about testing your honda knowledge. and i do apoligize for saying the b21a1 was 2.2l and yeah your right 2056cc's. and just for the record honda all wheel stering sucks. turning radius dosnt improve that much my friends mercury mystique has a better turning radius then the lude.
you did i was just brining it back up
i didnt say i would i just said it and the 5s had comparable torque. k seris are great motors trust me my friends k22 - k22a conversion is a blast.
ok i will the oil rings go so ****ing easily and the whole interferiance (butchered that word) engine sucks. -------------------- Former: 96 GT 5 speed (i/p/e) Fate- rear ended by mack truck
00 GTS 6 speed (i/ Bored TB 63mm - 68.5mm w/ butterfly/ Ported IM/ IMG/ PFC/ Commander/ datalogit/ Ported & heat wrapped Header/ Decat/ UEGO/) 193FWHP 14.2(1/4mi) @98mph, 2.12 60ft (just intake, unbolted Exhaust, and gutted) Fate- side swipped by 18 wheeler at 75mph. Next: maybe an elise |
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Sep 27, 2004 - 12:29 AM
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Enthusiast Joined Dec 27, '03 From Nor Cal Currently Offline Reputation: 0 (0%) |
True... Hondas traditionally have oiling problems... but so do Toyota motors. Things like rings is almost always based on abuse, which Honda motors usually take the blunt end of. Here's a reason why Honda motors are very high in quality: Take VTEC... all of those little rockers, all of those little pins, all of those little parts all designed to move at VERY high RPMS, all very small and pretty fragile, all covered under warantee with barely any problems. That's tough to do... in terms of engineering. I think a lot of anti-honda people dislike Hondas simply because of the image the Honda owners have portrayed the cars in recent years. They honestly (from a mechanics point of view), make a nice soild engine, and they do make nice solid cars. -------------------- "It's ok to be naked girl... I'm an artist!"
1995 AT200 Celica ST: stocked out daily driver... 1984 AE86 Corolla GT-SR5: silvertop 20V 4AGE project car jacked up with goodies... 1991 SW2x MR2 n/a: bare bones hardtop model soon to be... |
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Sep 27, 2004 - 12:35 AM
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Enthusiast Joined Jul 10, '03 From Appleton,WI Currently Offline Reputation: 0 (0%) |
I have to agree with Kwanza. People know Hondas are great cars but most "enthusiasts" just decide to jump on the bandwagon and say "Hondas suck."
Stupid. -------------------- A Jaws4God Creation... |
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Sep 27, 2004 - 12:41 AM
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Enthusiast Joined Jul 7, '04 From charlotte N.C. Currently Offline Reputation: 0 (0%) |
wow i feel i almost redeemed my self there.
-------------------- Former: 96 GT 5 speed (i/p/e) Fate- rear ended by mack truck
00 GTS 6 speed (i/ Bored TB 63mm - 68.5mm w/ butterfly/ Ported IM/ IMG/ PFC/ Commander/ datalogit/ Ported & heat wrapped Header/ Decat/ UEGO/) 193FWHP 14.2(1/4mi) @98mph, 2.12 60ft (just intake, unbolted Exhaust, and gutted) Fate- side swipped by 18 wheeler at 75mph. Next: maybe an elise |
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Sep 27, 2004 - 1:02 AM
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 Enthusiast Joined Dec 2, '02 From Portland, Oregon Currently Offline Reputation: 0 (0%) |
I agree... the civic is the main reason honda has such a bad name. Not the car... but just about every little ricer out there that knows nothing about cars except how they sound and what kind of system is in it are civic drivers. Of course there are some people that actually know something about their cars... but it seems as though the majority of those people drive civics... probably due to their inexpensive quality and great gas milage.. so parents have no guffs when coughing up the dough to buy their kids one. Honda motors, however, are solid.
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Sep 27, 2004 - 1:20 AM
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Enthusiast Joined Jul 7, '04 From charlotte N.C. Currently Offline Reputation: 0 (0%) |
i totally disagree with the fact the hondas are soild motos thyre all right but i would go to say solid(i am just talking generaly about the b seris motors because i know nothing of any other honda seris).
what they last forever i hear that all the time. well ive seen a ford with 260,000 on it and still ran pretty good. toyotas do that (with the exclusion of the turboed motors) volvo motors do that. now b seris motors are known to have horrible issues with the alternator and the a/c. and the valves, oh the valves im not even gonna go into the valves here now 127hp out of a 1.6l a feat? no not in the least ive seen what 225 out of the atlantica 4age. now 225hp out of a NA 1.6l now thats a feat. oh and i think its funny how everyone agrees with kwanza and no one disputes what he says. -------------------- Former: 96 GT 5 speed (i/p/e) Fate- rear ended by mack truck
00 GTS 6 speed (i/ Bored TB 63mm - 68.5mm w/ butterfly/ Ported IM/ IMG/ PFC/ Commander/ datalogit/ Ported & heat wrapped Header/ Decat/ UEGO/) 193FWHP 14.2(1/4mi) @98mph, 2.12 60ft (just intake, unbolted Exhaust, and gutted) Fate- side swipped by 18 wheeler at 75mph. Next: maybe an elise |
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Sep 27, 2004 - 1:23 AM
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 Enthusiast Joined Jan 1, '03 From LB gizzie, cali Currently Offline Reputation: 0 (0%) |
yeah..true.. honda's are great cars.... my cousin has a integra powered by h22 with greddy headers, intake and 5zigen exhaust system..and the car was kinda stripped... he beat lots of cars..i'm not even gonna lie, its FAST... anyways we took it out for a little run against my 3s swap (with TMIC).. off the line i took him (maybe it's because i did a better launch) then we shifted into 2nd i pulled on him about a fender and he held with me all the way i couldn't pull away much more.. I honestly thought that he would beat me but hey... anyways..uh..yeah..blah blah
honestly..why i don't try to dispute with kwanza is because i don't know much or maybe nothing about honda's other than they are king of rice.. This post has been edited by Ryu3x16: Sep 27, 2004 - 1:38 AM -------------------- [color=#FF0000] I MISS MY RED BABY =(
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Sep 27, 2004 - 1:43 AM
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Enthusiast Joined Dec 27, '03 From Nor Cal Currently Offline Reputation: 0 (0%) |
All that work to redeem yourself... *sigh* B series motors are tough and they make a lot of power. You bring up 3 of the engines I have the most vast experience with (D15/16, B series, 4AGs) so i gotta break them down a bit for you. B16/18s are good engines. We have a B16A set-up with ITBS and it runs beautifully. The motor has been beaten up on for most of this year, and we have not had any major problems with it. It's eaten nitrious, ran with bad tuning, dragged with a leaky head gasket, and recently, when taken apart, everything was CLEAN. This was almost always the case with the B series motors I worked on. We've spun this engine on almost a daily basis up to 8.5 rpms and it took the abuse since we've had it (had it since march). The engine still runs beautifully, even on crappily tuned ITBs... That's gotta say a bit about how tough this motor is. D series Honda motors are tough... why? Cause they've been in service, and are still in service since the early 80's. That alone has to say a bit about how well designed the engine is. Of course all engines have their problems, but if they're still being used... it's a good design. They do make some decent power also, and respond very well to nitrious. With modifications readily available and backed by Companies like Skunk2 and such, these engines have fair potential. Finally to compare the 2 above mentioned to the 4AGs... well, I'm afraid to say the 4AG may measure up to the D16 in terms of making power, it will not make as much streetable power as the D16. The D16 has far more buildability because it can be bored and stroked to some degree, while the 4AGs can't (5A/7A strokers, yes, but very limited bore). The formula atlantic 4AG should not be used as a comparison because even though it makes good power, it is NOT a streetable motor and is not an engine people can build and use on the street. MOST 16V 4AGs don't make more than 200 hp without very serious work. As unlikely as it sounds, I've seen D15/16 n/a motors that put out comparable numbers to streetable built 4AGs. I love the 4AGs... but I'll admit, it's not because they can make a fair amount of power. The D16's can almost match the 16V 4AGs... Oh... and go ahead and try to dispute what I say. It's all good and I never take these things personally. I'll just ask you this... have I been totally incorrect, yet still refuse to acknowledge the opposing side? Have I passed completely wrong information? Have I used my personal opinion to sway the facts? I'm merely clearifying things that are said which are based off of pure opinion... >>>Edited in<<<< I wanted to show you this also... My old 4AG that froze because of oiling problems... Work of beauty... Engines break... there's no way around that... This post has been edited by Kwanza26: Sep 27, 2004 - 1:51 AM -------------------- "It's ok to be naked girl... I'm an artist!"
1995 AT200 Celica ST: stocked out daily driver... 1984 AE86 Corolla GT-SR5: silvertop 20V 4AGE project car jacked up with goodies... 1991 SW2x MR2 n/a: bare bones hardtop model soon to be... |
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Sep 27, 2004 - 1:51 AM
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Enthusiast Joined Jul 7, '04 From charlotte N.C. Currently Offline Reputation: 0 (0%) |
i wouldnt say youve been incorect i would say you could defintly argue the whole honda isnt a solid motor. as dor your opinion how could you ever argue with out using your opinion its virtuatly impossible. and just for the record arguing is the best way to learn imo, ive learned a lot from this. anyways why do people say the 4age is not a streetable motor, because the powerband is soo high? also ITB's, your talking about throttle bodies right? -------------------- Former: 96 GT 5 speed (i/p/e) Fate- rear ended by mack truck
00 GTS 6 speed (i/ Bored TB 63mm - 68.5mm w/ butterfly/ Ported IM/ IMG/ PFC/ Commander/ datalogit/ Ported & heat wrapped Header/ Decat/ UEGO/) 193FWHP 14.2(1/4mi) @98mph, 2.12 60ft (just intake, unbolted Exhaust, and gutted) Fate- side swipped by 18 wheeler at 75mph. Next: maybe an elise |
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Sep 27, 2004 - 2:01 AM
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Enthusiast Joined Jan 1, '03 From LB gizzie, cali Currently Offline Reputation: 0 (0%) |
kwanza...i've notice that..how come everytime you post in a thread..you end up starting some kind of argument against other members?... everytime a member post in a thread you come out of no where and call them ignorant and so on.. and then you go and talk about how great a honda motor is and how much you know about them..... same thing over and over in lots of thread.. i don't mean to offend you but that's just what i've notice
-------------------- [color=#FF0000] I MISS MY RED BABY =(
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Sep 27, 2004 - 2:02 AM
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Enthusiast Joined Dec 27, '03 From Nor Cal Currently Offline Reputation: 0 (0%) |
Of course... but I don't really use my personal opinion (try not to) when I argue about Hondas. I don't like Hondas too much, I'll tell you that... but I have my "personal" reasons... ;] As for 4AGs... the reason they don't make a lot of streetable power is somewhat like you say... but there's also a bit more to it. Just to get a 4AG to the borderline non-streetability takes a lot of work and the results don't pay off. We're talking things like high-comp pistons, big duration/lift camshafts, upgraded valvetrain, shimless underbucket conversion, oversized valves, port/polish job, lightening... depending on the set-up... the power results are almost always not as high as people expect. My current set-up, Crower 272 Duration 8.3mm lift camshafts, TRD valve springs, Jun light flywheel (coomer's old flywheel), 2.25" exhaust to a resonator to a flowmaster 40, all on a smallport 4AG is only putting me around 130whp-140whp. My ae86 idles pretty smooth at 1400 rpms with very slight overlap, but any less than that, the engine overlaps badly and shakes. It drives great, is pretty quick... but if you knew exactly how easy it is to squeeze the same amount of power out of a D16... it would seem like an awful lot of work to do to a 4AG. A B16A with bolt-ons and tuning can make easily 140-150 whp... Yes... ITBs... Individual throttle bodies. Possibly the best EFI intake set-up for an n/a car... -------------------- "It's ok to be naked girl... I'm an artist!"
1995 AT200 Celica ST: stocked out daily driver... 1984 AE86 Corolla GT-SR5: silvertop 20V 4AGE project car jacked up with goodies... 1991 SW2x MR2 n/a: bare bones hardtop model soon to be... |
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Sep 27, 2004 - 2:16 AM
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Enthusiast Joined Jul 7, '04 From charlotte N.C. Currently Offline Reputation: 0 (0%) |
now i wouldnt go as far to say he does all this he does sometimes try to belittle people but kwanza will let you know when your wrong and most of the time when he tells you your wrong well you are. but he defintly deos like to belittle people. -------------------- Former: 96 GT 5 speed (i/p/e) Fate- rear ended by mack truck
00 GTS 6 speed (i/ Bored TB 63mm - 68.5mm w/ butterfly/ Ported IM/ IMG/ PFC/ Commander/ datalogit/ Ported & heat wrapped Header/ Decat/ UEGO/) 193FWHP 14.2(1/4mi) @98mph, 2.12 60ft (just intake, unbolted Exhaust, and gutted) Fate- side swipped by 18 wheeler at 75mph. Next: maybe an elise |
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Sep 27, 2004 - 2:17 AM
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Enthusiast Joined Dec 27, '03 From Nor Cal Currently Offline Reputation: 0 (0%) |
No offense taken. I usually only do this when I feel the members recieveing my barrage really is unsure why they're even talking. In this case, it's pretty easy. People bad talk Honda cars unneccesarily. I don't go all-out and call them ignorant unless they really do sound ignorant to me. Most people usually just confuse their dislike of Honda cars with their dislike of the brand's current image, which is being created by their owners. That to me, doesn't justify anything. I personally, like I mentioned before, don't really like Honda all that much either, but I wouldn't go as far as calling them bad cars. The arguments are always started when I come out with back-up information and my personal experience as to why Honda cars and engines are not as bad as some people seem to think they are. If they disagree and start making poor choices of words and arguments... we "discuss" it. If not, then It's done. This particular case... recneps at least knows and has a reason "why" and is discussing it with me... unlike some other topics (refer to last few pages of My CelicavsFriend Civic EX) where the persons involved, for a bit, have no reason aside from repeating they dislike Hondas. I'm actually a really nice guy, and try to help people out as much as I can with Tech questions and stuff. Like recneps said... we all learn from discussions like these... no? I'm not trying to get respect or anything like that. I just want you all to "try" and be considerate and "try" to understand and look at things from a different point of view before "joining the bandwagon." -------------------- "It's ok to be naked girl... I'm an artist!"
1995 AT200 Celica ST: stocked out daily driver... 1984 AE86 Corolla GT-SR5: silvertop 20V 4AGE project car jacked up with goodies... 1991 SW2x MR2 n/a: bare bones hardtop model soon to be... |
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Sep 27, 2004 - 2:18 AM
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Enthusiast Joined Dec 27, '03 From Nor Cal Currently Offline Reputation: 0 (0%) |
I wouldn't say belittle... cause that's not my intent. When it is... I'm pretty obvious about it. I just like good discussions... =] -------------------- "It's ok to be naked girl... I'm an artist!"
1995 AT200 Celica ST: stocked out daily driver... 1984 AE86 Corolla GT-SR5: silvertop 20V 4AGE project car jacked up with goodies... 1991 SW2x MR2 n/a: bare bones hardtop model soon to be... |
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