 almost just raced a prelude |
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 Sep 27, 2004 - 2:51 AM
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 Enthusiast  Joined Jun 29, '03 From canoga park , ca Currently Offline Reputation: 0 (0%)  |
lets face it guys hondas are turning into fords.. there all made in america, (not that thats a bad thing) but umm there just not imports. as for there engines i think vtec is horible... oh my god yes i said it again.... unless your going in a stright line vtec doesnt do anything for you. i will race any stock prelude up a hill or on a track. and kill him, over and over and over. trust me i have over and over and over. in my little st, which well isnt really stock at all anymore. but if vtec is god how come he couldnt keep up. maybe the driver? i dunno. either way an engine is an engine. a driver is a driver. and thats all there is to it basic stuff, here people basic stuff. as for a crx with an h22 swap.. now that one is a pain in the ass. but oh my god the power of those lil things, amazing simply amazing. sorry to piss anyone off. im just stuck in my ways. but i only speak from expirence.
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Sep 27, 2004 - 8:34 AM
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Enthusiast Joined Jul 7, '04 From charlotte N.C. Currently Offline Reputation: 0 (0%) |
engines break.. did it just break or did you give it a 500 shot of nos? anyways 4age's are awesome. id like to think that if i bought a st id be able to swap in one but i doubt it. -------------------- Former: 96 GT 5 speed (i/p/e) Fate- rear ended by mack truck
00 GTS 6 speed (i/ Bored TB 63mm - 68.5mm w/ butterfly/ Ported IM/ IMG/ PFC/ Commander/ datalogit/ Ported & heat wrapped Header/ Decat/ UEGO/) 193FWHP 14.2(1/4mi) @98mph, 2.12 60ft (just intake, unbolted Exhaust, and gutted) Fate- side swipped by 18 wheeler at 75mph. Next: maybe an elise |
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Sep 27, 2004 - 10:19 AM
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 Enthusiast Joined Feb 10, '03 From Connecticut Currently Offline Reputation: 11 (100%) |
mine are usually dinner. Although get this, I raced an E36 M3, but I had the boost down, so he beat me. Still dont have the Walbro in so I turned it down. But its killing me because I kno if i had the boost @12 I woulda spanked him. And he was cool, he said he was surprised at how fast it was. This post has been edited by Supersprynt: Sep 27, 2004 - 10:20 AM -------------------- |
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Sep 27, 2004 - 11:02 AM
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 Enthusiast Joined Nov 27, '03 Currently Offline Reputation: 0 (0%) |
It all depends on the generation of the Prelude. My friends 3rd gen has many mods done to it and all I have is a CAI. I hold with him throughout the entire race
 (b21a1 with CAI, Full exhaust, Cam gears, lightened flywheel, performance clutch, LSD, upgraded ignition and a few other things) . If its a 5th gen it already has the H22 in it but it is slow because of the weight of the dang things (almost 3700 lbs), if they turbo that engine you are screwed though. Even with a 3sgte swap it would be hard to beat a turbo h22 swapped anything, provided its done right. The 5th gen prelude will take a GT/ST (with minor mods), bone stock. They are fairly quick cars, and in my opinion very hot.
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Sep 27, 2004 - 11:24 AM
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 Enthusiast Joined Dec 27, '03 From Nor Cal Currently Offline Reputation: 0 (0%) |
You have your opinion... but VTEC is good. It's designed so you can have high-end power where it counts in a race, but still have the primary cam lobes for the low-end keeping the car streetable, smogable, and clean. It's a rather brilliant design... and if It wasn't, manufactures like BMW, Porsche, and even Toyota would not be copying. VTEC is for PURE track. Acura Integras GSR/Type R's have been pretty much owning the stock classes for the better part of the 90's and even now. There are not a lot of stock cars in the same class than can out-run an Integra on the track... and it's all because of VTEC. Of course, VTEC also has been played out to an extent... but just compare 2 motors that are essentially the same, minus VTEC, and understand the differences in power they make. A B18B and B18C can make as much as 40-70 hp difference of each other, all because of VTEC. That's a lot... As for Hondas turning into Ford... Honda was the LAST Japanese company that was still privately owned by the Honda family. The CEO recently passed away, and the succesor, Mugen Honda, is probably not gonna take over, which leaves Honda to its stock holders. Quite honestly, they are probably the last pure import company... regardless of where the cars are assembled. -------------------- "It's ok to be naked girl... I'm an artist!"
1995 AT200 Celica ST: stocked out daily driver... 1984 AE86 Corolla GT-SR5: silvertop 20V 4AGE project car jacked up with goodies... 1991 SW2x MR2 n/a: bare bones hardtop model soon to be... |
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Sep 27, 2004 - 11:28 AM
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Enthusiast Joined Jul 7, '04 From charlotte N.C. Currently Offline Reputation: 0 (0%) |
yeah but dosnt the B18C have a longer stroke and slightly increased compression like 50cc's or something.
anyways yeah vtec is good, it goes back to the point of the 3rd gen whos stock motor is comparable to the 5sfe. with a whole lot of mods cant beat a pretty much stock gt. hondas NEED vtec. This post has been edited by recneps: Sep 27, 2004 - 11:29 AM -------------------- Former: 96 GT 5 speed (i/p/e) Fate- rear ended by mack truck
00 GTS 6 speed (i/ Bored TB 63mm - 68.5mm w/ butterfly/ Ported IM/ IMG/ PFC/ Commander/ datalogit/ Ported & heat wrapped Header/ Decat/ UEGO/) 193FWHP 14.2(1/4mi) @98mph, 2.12 60ft (just intake, unbolted Exhaust, and gutted) Fate- side swipped by 18 wheeler at 75mph. Next: maybe an elise |
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Sep 27, 2004 - 11:44 AM
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Enthusiast Joined Dec 27, '03 From Nor Cal Currently Offline Reputation: 0 (0%) |
Did I mention the older B series are not related in any way to the newer B series? The last of the Prelude B series motors had a name changed and was called the H23. That was essentially the final version of the Prelude B series. The B series motors in the Integras and such are completely different. The easy way to tell, Prelude B sereis motors are mounted at an angle... As for the B18C and B18B... the B18B had a slightly taller stroke... but like you said, it wasn't much. I don't even think it was 50cc total... probably closer to 20-30cc. I forget exactly which is what. My point is, the motors are essentially identical. The B18B makes a better torque band, but that's only because it was designed to do so without VTEC. That doesn't mean Hondas *need* Vtec to make power, all it says is that they altered their designed to best utilize VTEC. Same deal with Toyota... the 1ZZFE was designed differently with a smaller bore and larger stroke than a 2ZZGE. Take for example, the K20A3 that came in the 2002+ Civic SI. It's a good motor, and although it claims to have VTEC, it has a different type of VTEC. This is an econo designed motor, similar to the old HX D15's back in the day. The engine runs on 3 valves per cyclinder (actually has 4) until its "VTEC" kicks in in the low rpms (~2000), which open up the 4th valve. This is done so chamber velocity is at its highest, making the best amount of torque. The base model RSX had the same motor, but they also incorporated intake manifold butterflys, similar to Toyota's TVIS system. These things together, do make for an engine that has very good low-end to mid-ranged response, and they do not utilize the traditional high lift multiple cam lobe VTEC. Honda does make good non-VTEC motors... but if they sell a lot of VTEC units... who cares? As for the old 3rd gen B20/21 vs the 5SFE... unfortunately, I'll disagree simply because the B20/21 can deliver more torque higher in the rpm band. True Dual Overhead Cams is the reason. The 5SFE makes torque, so you immediately feel the torque even at low throttle, while the B20/21 are pretty opposite... starting out flat and finishing up strong. I don't know what you guys did to your B20/21's... but ours was a 14 second car and was only modestly modified. I'm not saying the 5SFE is a bad engine... it's just not designed to do what a lot of people are looking for it to do. I've been there, and done that. -------------------- "It's ok to be naked girl... I'm an artist!"
1995 AT200 Celica ST: stocked out daily driver... 1984 AE86 Corolla GT-SR5: silvertop 20V 4AGE project car jacked up with goodies... 1991 SW2x MR2 n/a: bare bones hardtop model soon to be... |
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Sep 27, 2004 - 11:48 AM
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 Enthusiast Joined Jun 26, '03 From Wisconsin Currently Offline Reputation: 0 (0%) |
good lord, someone should rename this thread to the official defense for hondas....
lotta knowledge in here -------------------- i am awesome
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Sep 27, 2004 - 11:50 AM
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Enthusiast Joined Dec 27, '03 From Nor Cal Currently Offline Reputation: 0 (0%) |
No... no nitrious (just a silly name I came up with...). The car appearantly ran without oil and I bought it like that. We took the motor apart on a slow day at the shop and found rod caps in the oil pan and when the head came off, we found these pistons. Cylinders 1 and 3 were both like the picture... all because of lack of maintainence. Yeah... 4AGEs are pretty nice. They're just great to drive around, but... they're COMPLETELY opposite of the 7AFE and 5SFE... Pretty gutless. Some people who are used to the low-end response will not like the feel of that motor... A swap into a Celica ST would also be pretty easy also, IMO... -------------------- "It's ok to be naked girl... I'm an artist!"
1995 AT200 Celica ST: stocked out daily driver... 1984 AE86 Corolla GT-SR5: silvertop 20V 4AGE project car jacked up with goodies... 1991 SW2x MR2 n/a: bare bones hardtop model soon to be... |
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Sep 27, 2004 - 12:27 PM
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Enthusiast Joined Feb 4, '04 From Tampa Currently Offline Reputation: 0 (0%) |
sorry i meant i have a 4th gen 'lude, and its bad a$$
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Sep 27, 2004 - 1:28 PM
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Enthusiast Joined Sep 17, '03 From lakewood, ca Currently Offline Reputation: 0 (0%) |
oh no not another honda arguement again
This post has been edited by kdash: Sep 27, 2004 - 1:29 PM |
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Sep 30, 2004 - 11:25 PM
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Enthusiast Joined Feb 15, '04 From saskatoon, sk Currently Offline Reputation: 0 (0%) |
hey i used to own a honda. i like them alot, but they arent all that fast. i know my celica isnt either but whatever. if you want, ill get a camera next time and race the prelude again. the guy lives iin my area and i know the guy a little bit, so it shouldnt be hard. he didnt pull on me much. ive been beaten worse by stock cars with less hp. ive seen a couple preludes run at the track, and all ive seen is mid to high 15s out of them. |
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B.S. if you ask me...|
Oct 1, 2004 - 11:00 AM
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Enthusiast Joined Dec 27, '03 From Nor Cal Currently Offline Reputation: 0 (0%) |
You know... If I wanted to see a race against a Prelude, I can simply walk across my yard, wake up my cousin, and run him right now. We HAVE a 5th gen Prelude, and that car will beat any of my cars. I hope you don't think I'm saying all of this stuff just from guesses... and yes, once again, my cars are faster than most of the Celica GT's here... every single one of my cars... -------------------- "It's ok to be naked girl... I'm an artist!"
1995 AT200 Celica ST: stocked out daily driver... 1984 AE86 Corolla GT-SR5: silvertop 20V 4AGE project car jacked up with goodies... 1991 SW2x MR2 n/a: bare bones hardtop model soon to be... |
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Oct 1, 2004 - 1:58 PM
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 Enthusiast Joined Sep 10, '04 From san diego Currently Offline Reputation: 0 (0%) |
for sure i love hondas...well i just love cars period...actualy imports,but yeah unless its some p.o.s prelude it going to take that 6 gen any day...i mean even really crappy cars can beat a celica...like he said if vtec wasnt good...then why have all the other companys use it now...you can throw mitsubisihi on the list too all there new car use it..honda might be crappy to you guys but..for the price to power you cant beat it...celica with out a 3sgte is use less...even the st turbo you cant even boost more then 6 psi safely...i think stock car with turbo boost more then that...i dont know about you guys but 170hp for all that money isnt worth it to me.....then again the celica is a way hotter car.. just my words....thats why you gott have both...a car for speed and a car for the babes just another reason why we need 6 gen gt-4 in the states |
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Oct 1, 2004 - 1:59 PM
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Enthusiast Joined Sep 10, '04 From san diego Currently Offline Reputation: 0 (0%) |
for sure i love hondas...well i just love cars period...actualy imports,but yeah unless its some p.o.s prelude it going to take that 6 gen any day...i mean even really crappy cars can beat a celica...like he said if vtec wasnt good...then why have all the other companys use it now...you can throw mitsubisihi on the list too all there new car use it..honda might be crappy to you guys but..for the price to power you cant beat it...celica with out a 3sgte is use less...even the st turbo you cant even boost more then 6 psi safely...i think stock car with turbo boost more then that...i dont know about you guys but 170hp for all that money isnt worth it to me.....then again the celica is a way hotter car.. just my words....thats why you gott have both...a car for speed and a car for the babes just another reason why we need 6 gen gt-4 in the states |
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Oct 2, 2004 - 12:19 AM
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Enthusiast Joined Feb 15, '04 From saskatoon, sk Currently Offline Reputation: 0 (0%) |
ok what gen prelude are we talking about? i was talking about the 92-96. not the new ones. the new ones are way faster. and you should brag more about how fast and many cars you own |
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Oct 2, 2004 - 1:00 AM
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Enthusiast Joined Jul 7, '04 From charlotte N.C. Currently Offline Reputation: 0 (0%) |
actuatly the 5th and the 4th gen are pretty similar in performance the vtec 92-96 they both virtually have the same engine (all based off the h22a). but as for weight and such and such i dont know the difference. unless your talking about the f22a (POS) your celica is no mach for a 4th gen or 5th gen prelude. i do believe a nicely tuboed st or gt could beat both these car with i/h/e. This post has been edited by recneps: Oct 2, 2004 - 12:10 PM -------------------- Former: 96 GT 5 speed (i/p/e) Fate- rear ended by mack truck
00 GTS 6 speed (i/ Bored TB 63mm - 68.5mm w/ butterfly/ Ported IM/ IMG/ PFC/ Commander/ datalogit/ Ported & heat wrapped Header/ Decat/ UEGO/) 193FWHP 14.2(1/4mi) @98mph, 2.12 60ft (just intake, unbolted Exhaust, and gutted) Fate- side swipped by 18 wheeler at 75mph. Next: maybe an elise |
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Oct 2, 2004 - 1:54 AM
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Enthusiast Joined Feb 15, '04 From saskatoon, sk Currently Offline Reputation: 0 (0%) |
well **** i raced another one tonight, just to see if it was fluke, and off the line i took him, he hit second and pulled. his rear bumper was even with my front bumper through third and he wasnt pulling away. by the end of third, we had to slow down. but it was a different prelude both had vtec, and neither of them impressed me. the one i raced tonight was stock
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Oct 2, 2004 - 11:45 AM
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Enthusiast Joined Dec 27, '03 From Nor Cal Currently Offline Reputation: 0 (0%) |
Heh... first off, the 4th gen Ludes have far more potential. They are not slower than the 5th gens, if anything, they're faster and lighter. Second... didn't you lose? You're talking like Ludes are slow or something, and regardless, that's your opinion. I've said this many many times before, and will say again, your few occasions when you can stick it to their rear doesn't mean you'll always do that with every single Prelude. FYI, the lude I was talking about losing to is a STOCK AUTO Lude... and every other lude I've seen, raced, come across, driven, I assure you, will spank any non-swapped n/a Celica any day (except for maybe the F22 powerd Prelude S). As for me bragging... heh... I never claimed to be some sort of baddass and *think* my 16 second cars are fast. I'll assure you, they're faster than your car in any situation, but I'm not gonna be stupid enough to go off and compare to cars that simply have more power. All I ever say is that you shouldn't simply *think* our track proven 16 second cars are fast enough to even keep with 3 cars of a normal Prelude. The typical well driven H22 lude is a 15 second car... low 15's manual, high 15's auto. Those suckers can get into the 14 second range with bolt-ons... As for knowing what you race... how'd you know it was a VTEC lude? Did you open the hood and look, or are you just reading stickers. I highly doubt you can keep within 2 cars of an H22A Lude... then again, you raced for 2 gears... so that's pretty lame in itself. If you plan on carrying out this argument... go back and read my previous posts in this thread and prepare to know your stuff before you do so. I don't feel like repeating sh1t over and over... -------------------- "It's ok to be naked girl... I'm an artist!"
1995 AT200 Celica ST: stocked out daily driver... 1984 AE86 Corolla GT-SR5: silvertop 20V 4AGE project car jacked up with goodies... 1991 SW2x MR2 n/a: bare bones hardtop model soon to be... |
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Oct 2, 2004 - 7:44 PM
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Enthusiast Joined Feb 15, '04 From saskatoon, sk Currently Offline Reputation: 0 (0%) |
i thought your auto was a low 15 stock?????? and i never said anything about them being slow, im just saying i would expect more from a car with that much more power than me. yes i did lose to the preludes but i hung with them better than a 135 hp car should. i know the first prelude i raced was vtec mainly because as stated before, i know the guy. the last one i raced was stock. it didnt have exhaust, rims, stickers, anything except and srv badge in the factory location. im assuming if he was going to go through the trouble of putting on a different badge, he would have put on a type r or a gtr badge like everyone else in my city does. i am in no way saying i dont like them because i do like them, but i just expected more out of them. i know my 16 second car isnt fast either, but it doesnt have the numbers that the prelude does. |
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