body roll Options

[97GTinKC]

If you are having a lot of body roll even when just slightly turning the wheel, you probably have something worn out or broken, I'd check the sway bar end links and bushings 1st, then look at the tires, A GT "NEEDS" a performance V-rated tire or you can get the symptoms you describe (I can tell you that from experience). Struts would be the 3rd thing I'd check. These cars dont normally do this sort of thing, you need to make sure everything is working correctly BEFORE you start modifying things.

[streetdreamz94]

I agree w/ kwan ... i put all new suspension on mine starting with springs and shocks, the most notiable ride difference came then. So if your going to do anything, do them both right away. Doesn't pay to go in there twice when you can do it all at once.

[Supersprynt]

With that said - whats the kick ass strut to get?

[ghostdog]

With that said - whats the kick ass strut to get?
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get a full coilover. tein, jic, tanabe.. or koni/ground control for a couple hundred cheaper

[Supersprynt]

ha i dont have that much cash. I have lowering springs I just want a good strut to eliminate the horrible body roll.

Koni Yellows look pretty good - swaying towards them.

This post has been edited by Supersprynt: Nov 22, 2004 - 12:59 PM

[ghostdog]

ha i dont have that much cash. I have lowering springs I just want a good strut to eliminate the horrible body roll.

Koni Yellows look pretty good - swaying towards them.
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Koni Yellows are like 600. plus lowering springs at 200 or ground controls for 400. thats a grand, or the price of the base Teins

[Supersprynt]

Meh guess im going OEM

This post has been edited by Supersprynt: Nov 22, 2004 - 1:58 PM

[redtcel]

First off... the rear-end of a FWD car can't break out/loose or whatever unless you're yanking on the e-brake.
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thats not true. i broke out bad the other night coming out of a series of turns in a canyon... my buddy was in the car with me and kinda looked at me like WTF you have a front wheel drive car your rear end shouldnt be breaking lose. we got out to see if there was dirt or gravel... nothing..... no water no ice nothing. it was a regularly paved road....

[Consynx]

Are you letting off the gas?
do you have it over 3Krpm?

Maybe just a bit too fast? iunno, but i LOVE my new tires

[TRD-ST204]

No, I don't really drive fast unless I have to. I drive normally like a daily driver and I don't let off the gas. I heel toe most of the time.

[Kwanza26]

First off... the rear-end of a FWD car can't break out/loose or whatever unless you're yanking on the e-brake.
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thats not true. i broke out bad the other night coming out of a series of turns in a canyon... my buddy was in the car with me and kinda looked at me like WTF you have a front wheel drive car your rear end shouldnt be breaking lose. we got out to see if there was dirt or gravel... nothing..... no water no ice nothing. it was a regularly paved road....
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Bullsh!t... I'll bet you're another one of those Initial D dori togue wannabes. If you know anything about racing or fast driving techniques... the rear-end never simply slides out on its own in a FF car. I've been racing both FF and FR cars since I was 15 and FF cars simply don't tail slide on their own no matter how bad you wanna be cool and tailslide drift. There may be a few instances of mild skipping and traction loss... but by the time the rear starts sliding... the front load will be so great... the car's understeering. Think of it this way... in a horse drawn carriage, does the carriage ever go in a different direction from the horse simply because?

[Kwanza26]

No, I don't really drive fast unless I have to. I drive normally like a daily driver and I don't let off the gas. I heel toe most of the time.
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What for? Heel-toe shifting/braking is a race technique where balance can mean the difference between control and no control...

[RedSunCelica]

yup kwanzas right the back end will never come out like that on a FWD car. ill kinda skip but wont completly come out and do a fulblown slide.

take it to a auto x course and see. only way the back will come out like that is if your barrling down a staright line and trail brake into a tight tight corner even then the back will sorta budge but not to that extreme extent.

as for suspension i have eibach springs,uspension tech sways front and rear and rear cusco strut brace and couldnt be happer with the way it handles gonna buy the front to see how it differs with and with out it on.

as for the heel toe thing.... yeah its cool to know how to do it but i rarely do it..... only time i catch myself doing it is if im braking late into a corner but even then ill just go down a gear and left foot brake thru it...

This post has been edited by RedSunCelica: Nov 29, 2004 - 4:01 PM

[Consynx]

heel-toe?
maybe he was reffering to another way of two-footing it
i guess since FF cars are dif than the rest, some people do something like braking in the turn WHILE accelerating at the same time.

not quite sure how it works, but i think that's how it goes

[Bigmeanbulldog55]

I'm not sure I completely agree with a FF not sliding the back. I've raced dirt track, and I agree that it’s not a common thing for a FF to slide the back end. But, my old car would do it every now and then if I induced body role. Of course that car had a 67- 33% weight distribution front to back. It was a 92 Geo Storm Gsi, with a gutted interior and a fair amount of work done to the engine. I've never had either of my Celica’s ever do this though, and I don't think it's possible for them too. I don’t think this guy is telling the truth, but I think some FF cars will slide if you put effort into it.

[Kwanza26]

I'm not sure I completely agree with a FF not sliding the back.  I've raced dirt track, and I agree that it’s not a common thing for a FF to slide the back end.  But, my old car would do it every now and then if I induced body role.  Of course that car had a 67- 33% weight distribution front to back.  It was a 92 Geo Storm Gsi, with a gutted interior and a fair amount of work done to the engine.  I've never had either of my Celica’s ever do this though, and I don't think it's possible for them too.  I don’t think this guy is telling the truth, but I think some FF cars will slide if you put effort into it.
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Dirt and pavement are completely different worlds. Key word is "effort". I can make my FF car slide in the back... it's as easy as pulling the e-brake. As far as tail sliding during the apex of a corner during somewhat normal fast driving, it simply doesn't happen as exaggeratedly as some people think. You'd have to either be slamming on the brake where as the front is stopping completely and the rear loses all traction and slides out (like what RedSunCelica describes), or you directly apply pressure via e-brake. Even with staggered wheel set-ups, which is very common in FF racing, high grip tires up front and low grip in the rear to minimize understeer, a FF car doesn't exhibit tail sliding without direct input. The front wheels are constantly pulling the rear... so there's no way the rear can somehow pull itself elsewhere away fron the front without direct input from the driver. It's simple physics... I find it almost laughable how often people try to argue against this...

[Bigmeanbulldog55]

I'm not sure I completely agree with a FF not sliding the back.  I've raced dirt track, and I agree that it’s not a common thing for a FF to slide the back end.  But, my old car would do it every now and then if I induced body role.  Of course that car had a 67- 33% weight distribution front to back.  It was a 92 Geo Storm Gsi, with a gutted interior and a fair amount of work done to the engine.  I've never had either of my Celica’s ever do this though, and I don't think it's possible for them too.  I don’t think this guy is telling the truth, but I think some FF cars will slide if you put effort into it.
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Dirt and pavement are completely different worlds. Key word is "effort". I can make my FF car slide in the back... it's as easy as pulling the e-brake. As far as tail sliding during the apex of a corner during somewhat normal fast driving, it simply doesn't happen as exaggeratedly as some people think. You'd have to either be slamming on the brake where as the front is stopping completely and the rear loses all traction and slides out (like what RedSunCelica describes), or you directly apply pressure via e-brake. Even with staggered wheel set-ups, which is very common in FF racing, high grip tires up front and low grip in the rear to minimize understeer, a FF car doesn't exhibit tail sliding without direct input. The front wheels are constantly pulling the rear... so there's no way the rear can somehow pull itself elsewhere away fron the front without direct input from the driver. It's simple physics... I find it almost laughable how often people try to argue against this...
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I was saying that about my old car, and no it was not on the dirt only. If your arguing that you can't step on the gas and have a FF car's rear wheels spin it around, I don't think your get much feedback because this is obviously true. But the key here is the effort, and it is possible for a front drive cars rear to slide without the e-brake. My car didn't have much for rear brakes but it did have upgraded front brakes. This is probably why it would break loose in the back sometimes. And I was saying all of this just as friendly conversation. It gets irritating when people start laughing at one another. That isn't what these forums are about.

[Kwanza26]

I was saying that about my old car, and no it was not on the dirt only.  If your arguing that you can't step on the gas and have a FF car's rear wheels spin it around, I don't think your get much feedback because this is obviously true.  But the key here is the effort, and it is possible for a front drive cars rear to slide without the e-brake.  My car didn't have much for rear brakes but it did have upgraded front brakes.  This is probably why it would break loose in the back sometimes.  And I was saying all of this just as friendly conversation.  It gets irritating when people start laughing at one another.  That isn't what these forums are about.
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I laugh because of posts like this. You're trying to make an argument repeating what I said earlier. That example is not even what we're reffering to here. Think of it as "drift style" tail sliding. Even the braking example... it happens only when you're slowing down from very high speed to very low speed in a relatively straight line. Also, the front rear bias has to be very very strong to the front... to the point where the rear can't lock up.

This post has been edited by Kwanza26: Nov 30, 2004 - 10:10 AM

[TRD-ST204]

It could also be that I don't have ABS and the roll is very strong. I never said it slides i said it looses traction.

[TRD-ST204]

Hey Kwanza I don't think you know what you are talking about; I heel toe because I want the passengers in my car to have a more comfortable ride. You say you race, where do you race?