got the 5SFTE put on a DYNO, heres the results. actual number finally Options

[NEVERSTOP]

[SlowCelica94]

So the arugment is sorta like this. 3s is better. But for the money you spend swapping in a 3s, you could build a better 5s. Ok. Prove it. No, don't actually do it, i wanna know now. Price it out. You prove to me there's even strong enough aftermarket support for the 5S to do it.

NEVERSTOP, do you have any pics of ur awd conversion? maybe a write up? Or could you just tell us in a quick nutshell how you did it. I'm not asking for some DIY guide, just enough to sway some opinions as to if you really did it.

[SlowCelica94]

Also, as far as what Lagos has brough to this site, he's brought more then you list. Even if he can just deliver intelligent answers to technical questions, it's pretty helpful. When it comes to anything mechnical on this site, I only take Lagos's, Kwanza's and superspirt's words seriously. Sometimes your's but you just give me a shady vibe

[celicarocker]

meh.... johns addicted to speed anyway... i give it a year and a half and he has a 3S in his car anyway, cuz he maxed out the gains out of his 5S....

[ummmx2]

well from what i hear..you can get the basic basic for the turbo kit for about 800..then add in the bov..turbo timer..boost controller..fuel management..intercooler etc. itll run about 2000 theres the basic 5sfte right there..should run safely at about 8-10 psi..get internals about 3gs..and then some goodies and ur still under the swap cost.

[NEVERSTOP]

[lagos]

185 clip - 2000-2500 - yep thats correct
MRT2 Tranny - 800-1000 - i, and many others are using the stock GT tranny
motor mounts - Appox 200 - u dont need them if u have a GT
Halfshafts camary/mr2 - 200-300 - dont need unless using mr2 tranny
FMIC - 200-400 = yep thats about what the go for
Piping w/couplers - 200-300- correct
BOV - 50-150 - dont really need it, but its a fun toy
Misc - 500 - tools engine lift etc...


$2950-3850 - this is t he ballpark figure i spent on my swap

sell awd tranny from clip -200
sell 5sfe..depending on condition -300-900
sell alltrac hood... 300-450
sell misc alltrac parts 100-300

after selling all that stuff off the price starts to come down.

the Baic 5sfte kit is not a good idea imho.

5sfte mild build up... is the better way to go if you are doing a 5sfte. its very important to control timing with the btm. this is my theory as to why itchyb still has a running engine.

what ever choice people decide, you have to consider the goal: A Turbo 6th gen. a swap will give u that, and a 5sfTe will too. choose not based on cost, but on what you think will give you the best, most realiable setup. if you feel a 5sfTe will do that....great, but do it right and dont expect a 750$ invstment to be realiable. if you go for the swap, spend the extra bucks to fully tune up your engine, and all that stuff.

This post has been edited by lagos: Nov 10, 2004 - 8:14 PM

[x_itchy_b_x]

come on though if we didnt base things on price we'd all live in huge houses and drive bmw's... money owns me.

[NEVERSTOP]

[t-spoon]

Just FYI, the 3sgte can in fact handle more than 1bar reliably (as reliably as anything is with a turboed car anyway). I run 15 daily, two other guys in town run 17 daily, it's not that uncommon. The limitation is in fact the turbo itself, CT26 seals just don't like to go higher boost, the turbo is not efficient at those levels, pushing a lot of hot air for less good. When you have an a different turbo that's more efficient and can safely run the boost like Hyde, that's not as much of an issue. For the cracking pistons, with the stock turbo it's hard to exhaust the stock fuel system, at 17 psi it's probably got the injectors working at a high duty cycle, but unless they fail, lean isn't likely. There are a couple of easy precautions, namely sticking an egt probe in exhaust manifold runner 3 which, as we all well know, is the cylinder that will go lean first due to the 3s intake manifold design. You have that backup and it's easy enough to back off as soon as EGTs get a bit higher than they should.

To put it simply, the 3s is a pre-engineered Turbo setup. No guessing if you leave it basically stock. The 5s is EXTREMELY well engineered in its own right, but not as a turbo motor. That doesn't mean it can't be turbo'ed well, it just means you have a lot of things to take care of that you don't with the 3s. There's no better or more cost effective way IMO, they both are expensive to do RIGHT and they both can yield extremely good results. I've owned 2 MR2s (a 93 with 190k miles, a 91 with 173k miles which I have still) and an Alltrac (90 with 123k miles) as well as a 94 Celi GT which has had internals built in preparation to a 5sfte project I haven't got around to completing yet. I can tell you I sunk a lot of money into every single car. Each car had its own quirks, and building up the 5sfe wasn't as cheap as it should of been, quite simply because things can happen that you can't predict, as happened with me. By the same token, another guy who is trying to swap got a bad motor to start with and is having problems. Whichever way you choose, choose with knowlege, not with what's going to be "cheaper" or "better", choose what's going to be what you wanted out of the car, each setup has strengths and weaknesses. I think it's pretty poor form that some of you have yet again devolved the discussion into a which is better argument. It's pointless and counterproductive, try laying the information out objectively without tossing in opinions to try to steer people one way or another. If someone wants to 5sfte, give them the information or just stay out of it. If they want to swap, again, info or hush. IMO that's the only reasonable way to approach it.

BTW, those dyno numbers look great, I do recommend an EGT probe in runner 3 and a good gauge to keep an eye on things

[OOBE]

Dude, back home (Puero Rico), there's more people running fast on non-turbo deuces than turbo ones. They either boost the hell out of them until the engine gives up (15 PSI and they last a while), or they stuff it with forged internals. I'm not kidding here, I've seen more 400+ WHP non-turbo deuces than turbo ones. Down there, the 5S-FE is the prefered platform for going fast. Weird, huh?

[celicarocker]

[Supersprynt]

[ST204no2]

So the arugment is sorta like this. 3s is better. But for the money you spend swapping in a 3s, you could build a better 5s. Ok. Prove it. No, don't actually do it, i wanna know now. Price it out. You prove to me there's even strong enough aftermarket support for the 5S to do it.
[right][snapback]205672[/snapback][/right]

I Completed a buildup of a 5sfe Motor tuned for No2, this April Forged Oversized lowcompression pistons, forged rods, ballenced crank, reman head, and early series head gskt. So far has been Very reliable, daily driven car. two things became apparent
one, because of the angle of the engine in the mounts the front side of the block tends to wear faster ovaling the bore[due to less oil from the pump ]. hence the oversize pistons. two, with the narrow with of the head the twin cams are a real pain to work with[as well as limiting airflow](don't flame me over this its just an observation). I've been working on a prototype Motor useing the 5sfe block and reworking a 89' 3sge head
has anyone tried this? In theory the Higher flowing head If tuned properly will produce more horse power over all {especially if turboed} Combined with the higher torque of the 2.2l block. I heard of versions of this mainly using the 3sgte and stroking it or combining th two. btw the Source for 5sfe parts is Raceeng.com

[CheesyLobster]

Get a 3sgte and bore it. There you got a engine thats ment for turbo with the displacement of a 5sfe.

[x_itchy_b_x]

the idea is to do sumthing new and creative though.

[chucho]

Good job, hope it keeps going strong for ya I wanted to do this too but decided i need to buy a 2nd car if I was going to turbo the celi

[Doge]

Get a 3sgte and bore it. There you got a engine thats ment for turbo with the displacement of a 5sfe.

Adding a 5s block to the 3s head is a better idea for stroking. The 5s block is stronger.. and the crank is more beefy.

[ST204no2]

Get a 3sgte and bore it. There you got a engine thats ment for turbo with the displacement of a 5sfe.

Adding a 5s block to the 3s head is a better idea for stroking. The 5s block is stronger.. and the crank is more beefy.
[right][snapback]206731[/snapback][/right]

I don't think tha block is any stronger... But the advantages are you can continue to use the crank sensor for the later obd2 ecu with no modification. bore and build the 5sfe block and get the better flowing head. If you use the correct pistons[available online] Turboing is not a problem.

[Punch]

thats a good idea

This post has been edited by Punch: Dec 9, 2004 - 12:25 AM