Sub issues Options

[SoundSlut_dotcom]

my 10" 's pump 1300 RMS... im sure a 18 can hit harder

[Scarrell]

im a fool? ive posted what could be the problem. i told him to check all his wires. he hasnt replied to much. so there isnt anything more we can do til he updates us. as you said, you dont know me. anyone can tell you to get a cap, but anyone can also tell you that you dont have to have one, also any mechanic/car audio guy can tell you that your lights will dim period. theres a difference between a small system and a big system, bigger the system the more current it pulls. and why am i a fool? theres a question. and by my last post, Your subs do not push anything, the amp pushes the subs. a capacitor IS Not a battery. your car couldnt run off of it for one.

A capacitor WILL:
-Stiffen voltage rails. If you experience very brief, momentary periods of high current demand that cause the electrical system to falter only at these rare, peak draw times, then a capacitor will supply the additional current needed (when bass hits) to keep your voltage rails stiff, and prevent damage to the car or audio equipment.
-Increase response times for musical accuracy by reducing delay caused by transient response times between current demands from the amplifier, and response to this by the electrical system. In other words, your subs will respond more quickly, because they don't have to wait for the alternator to supply additional current at the moment of demand. Amplifiers have to provide a very dynamic and quick response many times. A capacitor can assist in this if the rest of the charging system is up to par.

A capacitor will NOT:
-replace the need for a larger, high-output alternator and/or a deep-cycle battery or batteries.
If your electrical system is inadequate, the ONLY way to fix this, and again I repeat, the ONLY WAY to fix this, is to replace the alternator. This is the SOLE source of electrical current for your car when the motor is running.
When the motor is turned off, the battery then becomes your source of electricity.
When the battery is run down, and when the capacitor(s) is/are depleted, the alternator has to work even harder in order to supply current to the car, the audio system, and also to recharge the capacitor(s) (which deplete very quickly) as well as recharge the car's battery(ies).
So by adding a capacitor to try taking the place of a high-output alternator, you are actually causing more work for your alternator, and causing even more damage to that stock alternator.
-make your system magically sound 10 times better.

Many people believe that a capacitor adds NO real benefit to an audio system, and this is why you never see before and after demonstrations, or factory capacitor company vehicles at competition events.
A capacitor does have it's uses, but it is not a magical fix for a lacking electrical system.

To calculate the capacitance needed for your system, you will need to find the peak or max power ratings of your amplifiers, and add those together. This is the only time peak amplifier power ratings are even remotely useful, since a capacitor is only used to cover very brief peak demands, and not cover for the continuous amplifier demands.
Take the peak power total and figure 1 farad of capacitance for every 1000 watts of power.

ALSO: http://www.bcae1.com/capacitr.htm

Upon reading and answering many questions about car audio, one question always pops up:
"Do I need a high output alternator or just a capacitor?"
If you want a killer system, you may think that all you need are big amplifiers and huge speakers. Not so! Adding a bunch of car audio components to your vehicle without the proper charging system may lead you to disappointment, distortion and damaged equipment.

Let's say you install a 1,200 watt amplifier in your ride. Your rides charging system must produce enough electrical current to run the amplifier. Now how do you know how much current is needed? Simple: divide the RMS power rating of the amplifier by the amount of voltage your cars electrical system will produce then add in amplifier inefficiency based on amplifier class.

Most vehicle electrical systems are 12.5VDC at idle, and between 13.8 and 14.4VDC above about 900rpm but we use 12 volts as the standard for these calculations, so 1,200 watts divided by 12 volts equals 100 Amperes of current. If this is a class D amplifier, it'll be ~80% efficiend, so we'll add 20% of 100A to the total, and we get about 120A of current demand continuously at peak amp output. This means that the electrical system of the vehicle will need to produce an extra 120 Amperes of electrical current to power your amplifier and subwoofer at peak levels. Keep in mind that the factory electrical system is designed to produce enough charging power (alternator and battery) for the vehicle's stock equipment, and was not designed to accomodate high-powered audio systems.

The biggest mistake made by consumers and (some) installers is failing to beef up the charging system to handle the extra load of the audio system. First, you need to understand how the electrical system operates. This must be one of the most mis-understood systems of the entire vehicle, so here's a brief summary:

Turning the ignition key begins the process of cranking the motor. The battery supplies the power to get things started. Once the engine is running, the electrical burden is shifted over to the alternator. The alternator uses the engine's mechanical power to produce electrical (AC) current. The AC current is passed through a rectifier and changed to DC current which is then sent through a voltage regulator to smooth out and set the voltage rails for the car . The alternator also has the duty of recharging the battery after starting the vehicle by providing a forward bias voltage higher than that which the battery produces on it's own.

Everything works perfectly so long as the power requirements of the vehicle do not exceed the capabilities of the alternator. If the peak output is surpassed due to excessive load, then power will be pulled from the battery. If the alternator and battery combined cannot meet the demand, then the vehicle's voltage rails, and subsequently the electrical devices are diminished (dimming lights, spark plug misfires, audio distortion and amplifier clipping, or even the car stalling.)

The first place to look to determine if your charging system is up to the task is the alternator itself. If possible, look for the HOT RATING on the alternator. IF you can't see it easily, call a local auto-parts store or car dealership and ask them to look up the stock alternator size, or rating for your vehicle. The hot rating will tell you the amount of power the alternator will produce once the engine reaches it's operating temperature (this is a lower rating than the cold rating). I suggest using your stock alternator unless you experience problems. That's how you know if you need to upgrade, since there is no concrete way to tell if a stock alternator has enough reserve to handle your additional burdens. Now, if you do need a new and larger alternator, after finding the stock rating, then allow your alternator about 10 Amperes credit or buffer area.

As a note, when calculating your required current for your audio system, this is an easy way to do it:

1: calculate the total RMS wattage of your system based on how the amplifiers are wired (2 Ohm load, 4 Ohm load etc)

2: take that total RMS rating, and divide by 12.

3: add 20% for class D and T or 40% for class AB.

4: add amplifier totals together for a combined measurement.

This is how many Amperes your audio system will require in addition to what your car already needs (stock alternator rating) at full output.

For more information on charging systems and alternators, see here:
www.bcae1.com/chargin2.htm

[Digndoug]

haha...thats funny....your subs are pushing 1800watts? wow ive never heard of that.. please tell me how your subs are pushing 1800watts? what amp are you using? oh and do some research kid.... caps are a "if you want" type of thing. oh and a cap holds a charge til its needed also.. thanks for trying, but please try again.
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First off dont call me a fuccking kid, Iv sold car- audio equipment for three years, I instaled on three cars that have entered comitioons and won. yes i am pushing 1800 watts, If you lookin my profile, I have rockford 700s. I never said a cap is a must have, but it def helps.. and simple enough like i was trying to say for peps that dont understand, a cap will reduce a max overload to the batt, so your lights dont dim. Im not sure why i bother somtimes..

[Scarrell]

well that is very wonderful, i dont know why you bother either, i mean did i just type all of that out up there for no reason? or do you want me to call you and explain it or make a video and send it to you? i mean do you talk this way to your mother? for someone who has been selling for 3 looooong years and installed in cars that have won comps(let me tell you that is hard ) , i am obviously not up to your level of car audio, i will bow down to you master, i am sorry and i love you. lets go on a date too.




This post has been edited by Scarrell: Nov 17, 2004 - 9:18 PM

[SoundSlut_dotcom]

sub is fried, you can hook another sub up to it to find this out.
[right][snapback]205688[/snapback][/right]

haha...thats funny....your subs are pushing 1800watts? wow ive never heard of that.. please tell me how your subs are pushing 1800watts? what amp are you using? oh and do some research kid.... caps are a "if you want" type of thing. oh and a cap holds a charge til its needed also.. thanks for trying, but please try again.
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like i said.

[Yota]

I have in my car:

-Xtant A6001 Monoblock class D amplifier
-Eclipse EA 3422 4 channel amplifier
-Stinger 1 farad capacitor
-Two 12" Infinity Kappa Subwoofers
-6.5" Infinity Kappa 3 way speakers in the rear
-6.5" Infinity Kappa components in doors
-Kenwood Excelon Headunit
-4 gauge wiring

I still get major headlight dim when the bass booms.. Why is that? I thought the capacitor was to eliminate that. Its seriously just as bad as when it was before I got the capacitor.

Edit: I forgot, I have a Red Top Optima battery too.

This post has been edited by Yota: Nov 18, 2004 - 6:29 PM

[Scarrell]

because your Altenator is your power source, and capacitor or new battery will not solve this, getting a high output altenator is the solvent, but there is still going to be some dimming.

[Yota]

so where does one go to get that alternator?

[Digndoug]

well that is very wonderful, i dont know why you bother either, i mean did i just type all of that out up there for no reason? or do you want me to call you and explain it or make a video and send it to you? i mean do you talk this way to your mother? for someone who has been selling for 3 looooong years and installed in cars that have won comps(let me tell you that is hard ) , i am obviously not up to your level of car audio, i will bow down to you master, i am sorry and i love you. lets go on a date too.



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Alright jackasss , now why do you have to be such a 12 y/o pos? thats all i would like to know.

Second off, i dont think you even have a right to come close to speaking like that, sence you have only been on this board for 10 days.

This post has been edited by Digndoug: Nov 19, 2004 - 12:23 AM

[Yota]

I agree with you Digndoug... I think that was a totally uncalled for.

[Makaveddie]

lol what a funny post, i missed this one.

Ya, try to keep it mature people.

As for the power situation:

High Output alternator is usually the best way to go (make sure you have a high capacity battery as well). Capacitors tend to store power for when it is needed, but if your alternator cannot put out enough power, the cap will be drained, leaving your alternator to charge both the battery and the cap. This will stress it to the point of dying, leaving you in the middle of the road with no power. NOT FUN.

Conclusion: google "high output alternators," and email people to see if they make one or can make one for your car. They will need to know the year, model, engine size, and if it's manual/automatic.

Make sure that when you ask for a high output alternator, they aren't just "rewinding" your alternator. This will leave high output at high rpm's, but when you are idling it will leave you with no power. Get a brand new alternator that will fit right in, and make sure you get an alternator that idles at high output.

The 94 st hatchback manual comes stock with a 60 amp alternator I believe. This number is MAXIMUM. Find an alternator that will put out 50 amps idle, or more.

$.02 from Ed.

[Scarrell]

well this is the internet, so my right to free speech is limitless....

check out

www.mraltenator.com
www.alternatorparts.com
www.nexxon.com <-- they have alot of altenators, but i think their site is down for a bit? or you can go to your local auto shop and talk to them..

[SoundSlut_dotcom]

get a 110

[Gilbert_619]

yeah caps are no good...they help but dont solve anything...altenator is the way to go...try going to a plcae that works with altenators they most the time can rewine your altenator to make more power output

[Blakout16]

yah guys i'd listen to soundslut... he knows his stuff

This post has been edited by Blakout16: Nov 20, 2004 - 4:10 PM