V6 swap, Your thoughts Options

[FallenHero]

http://engr.ucsb.edu/~warped/projects/swap/cost.htm that is the parts and price list from a 5th gen celica

I had this huge write up on it that I made. I linked to all these web pages and stuff and really got all the information together. Hit the button to post the thread, and it shot me an error and killed my write up

SO, instead of getting my big beautiful write up, you get to make your own decisions because I am pissed. Maybe I'll write more up later. Maybe somebody with broadband will search around and find all the info and post it.

I quit.
goodnight

[Kwanza26]

It's a very unique swap with excellent forced induction buildability, but as far as keeping the motor n/a, or even build up n/a... It's not all that great. The guy that did that swap only managed to run mid 14's in the 1/4 mile with some pretty awesome 60 footers... so that swap's not gonna get much better than that. The upside... excellent torque, excellent driveability, and excellent reliability. Like I said before on celica.net... this swap isn't considered a performance swap to me... it's like putting in a bigger badder version of an econo box... ;]

[lagos]

id say that it wouldnt be a bad idea, but would be a lot of custom work to get it running. basically not the type of thing i would recomend for somone doing their 1st swap. the wiring would be a whole new thing, that no one here has ever tried before.

on the upside, you would probably be the 1st 6cyl 6th gen and the motor is common and cheap enough that would can always source another one locally if anything ever happened to yours. aslo, adding a turbo to that motor would probably make it insanely fast at very little boost levels.

[nik]

what do you guys think he would get if he turboed at say 7 psi????? to the wheels horse and torque whats the stock hp and trq on that motor?

[lagos]

its really hard to say without knowing the whp on that motor, but id say that if he runs 14s now, he would be in the lower 13s at the very least.

read the deatails of that swap tho....it looks like it was a lot of custom work.

[FallenHero]

It's kinda like dropping a big bad V8 into a little roadster and calling it a shelby cobra. Although that is an extreme exmple...

As far as this being a performance swap.... ehh, take it how you can get it. the engine makes Hella power (comparatively) and is even more so reliable. The engine and it's parts are plentiful. I think it's a great swap to increase the performance of your celica, although the engine in itself is not a performance engine. is the integra LS engine a performance engine? I see those swapped and turboed into hondas all the time. The point is this: This engine in a light weight celica would make for a Really fast drag car/road car/ road race car. It would be Evil from a dead stop, and walk all over most cars from a roll. And in the corners.... the engine doesn't weigh that much more than a 3sgte, or even a 5s for that matter, so i don't see a problem there either.

Here are my thoughts.

Mount the engine: Custom work. You hang the engine where it needs to be and start welding and bolting mounts into place. not an easy task, but when you think about it, not really that hard of one either. These domestic guys do this all the time, you just have to make sure the thing isn't going to rock into anything important.

Axles: what do you use? I have no clue. I doubt the ones that come with the engine would be the right length. I also don't know if Mr2 axles will work with my hubs.

Wiring... you guys are gonna bash, but I say no problem. Why? Because I would be swapping from a US enging which all the pin diagrams are available for to another US engine which all the diagrams are available for. I would also keep the auto tranny because I have an auto tranny. Once again this eases the troubles of wiring.

Worst comes to worst there are companies that specialize in harness work.I have a friend that builds mini-trucks. he said he could call and say they were converting a.... 88 S-10 V6 to a 95 LT-1 V8. For like... $300 they would send him a plug and play harness.

I think this is a very doable swap. It could also be a cheap swap if the car was left auto as I am saying. (cheap compared to the $4500 3s swap I was quoted)

Once again though, this is a good topic for us to discuss. So! Continue!

[95STHATCH]

I bet it would gain more points in a car show,if you did that sort of thing.

[FallenHero]

http://bedellracing.home.comcast.net/

http://www.mr2oc.com/showthread.php?t=120&...highlight=1mzfe

This post has been edited by FallenHero: Nov 29, 2004 - 1:51 AM

[Jeremy1210]

The guy in his 5th gen had a radiator problem. He had to move it to the front of his frame(not sure what its called), but he had to move it b/c there wasn't enough room in the engine bay for the radiator. so that is a problem. I think the swap is a good idea. 200hp adn ft/lb w/ good gas mileage.

[FallenHero]

well, I hear that the 5sfe radiator isn't up to cooling the V6 anyway... I think he also cut out one of the cooling fans= BIG nono. you can get super thin fans for a fairly cheap price. Moving the radiator foreward a bit (or even in front of the reinforcements) would reakky be no major problem. I'd get an aftermarket aluminum unit anyway...

[Hanyo]

what i worry about in this swap is the alighment of the engine. he had clearances of around 1 inch. from the frame. I think if he didn't get it just right he would have problems with the engine hitting the firewall. the more scary part was when he lowered the engine and had to modify the engine cradle. too scary for such little gain.

[FallenHero]

what i worry about in this swap is the alighment of the engine. he had clearances of around 1 inch.  from the frame. I think if he didn't get it just right he would have problems with the engine hitting the firewall. the more scary part was when he lowered the engine and had to modify the engine cradle. too scary for such little gain.
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Modding the cradle is no problem as long as you reinforce it. Like I have said, I am not diving into this, and odds are i won't do it anyway. I am just trying to get the information together to offer my objective opinions on how to do it in the 6th gen. I also hope to get the wiring diagrams for the site to use. That's my next miniproject.

EDIT: also, I would not think the wiring would be very bad for this swap... I am keeping the auto, keeping it FWD, keeping the same ECU with the same engine... the ecu should be plug and play with the engine. the only things I would have to wire in are certain perepherals. I would also have to switch out the gauge cluster interworkings, so that would wind up plug and play also. Like I said, the actuall chassis wiring harnesses would be different, but as long as you knew what they were for the 7a, and what the 1mz was looking for, it wouldn't be any problem to get the two together.

I AM NOT SAYING THIS IS AN EASY SWAP THOUGH... just for people that don't know, it has never been done on a 6th gen, and the 5th gen is or was having some problems.


http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid8...09/fa9e88a9.jpg

did he do this to keep the engine from moving under load.... wow


http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid8...60/fa9e88fe.jpg

he could have removed that section and boxed the cradle for strength rather than just pounding it down... just a thought. Gotta love a plasma cutter.

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid8...5f/fa9e8919.jpg
here is your overheating problem i bet. isn't that the pipe with cool water going to the engine from the radiator? Keep in mind, I think the 1mz reverses water flow. With that in mind, that copper cube would get really hot over the header like that. There is surely another way to do it.

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid9...06/fa711020.jpg

I think the 6th gen engine bay is larger... it does, after all, house the 3rd gen 3s in japan. that engine is way bigger than the 1mz.


http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid8...7e/fa9e8822.jpg
once again, surely there is another way.

This post has been edited by FallenHero: Dec 1, 2004 - 7:43 PM

[FallenHero]

So I E-mailed some guys about building me a custom harness for a 95 celica/1mzfe swap harness. This is what I got.

Hi Jon,



There is no conversion harness for your swap, but if you’ll provide the info on the connectors you need and the details of how you want it wired, I’ll look into it. If I have the parts in stock I will give you a quote on the harness.

If you could take some clear pics of the connectors that will help me identify the parts, then all I’ll need are your wiring instructions.



Regards,



Richard A. Welch

AutoSport Wiring

P.O. Box 93141

Southlake, Texas 76092

011-817-707-9371

www.autosportwiring.com



I bet they could do 3sgte wiring for you guys also.

[WannabeGT4]

So I E-mailed some guys about building me a custom harness for a 95 celica/1mzfe swap harness.  This is what I got.

Hi Jon,



There is no conversion harness for your swap, but if you’ll provide the info on the connectors you need and the details of how you want it wired, I’ll look into it. If I have the parts in stock I will give you a quote on the harness.

If you could take some clear pics of the connectors that will help me identify the parts, then all I’ll need are your wiring instructions.



Regards,



Richard A. Welch

AutoSport Wiring

P.O. Box 93141

Southlake, Texas  76092

011-817-707-9371

www.autosportwiring.com



I bet they could do 3sgte wiring for you guys also.
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If they have to ask how to wire it I wouldn't give them a second thought.

[lagos]

i think that motor in a 6th gen, wouldnt be as tight of a fit as it is in a 5th gen, so the radiator probably could stay the same. i know there is a lot more room in my engine bay with the 3s in it, then there was when that same motor was in the alltrac clip i got.

if you read through that guys site, youll see just how much custom work had to be done to make it work...i give him lots of props. it looks like it was a very hard swap.

[FallenHero]

i think that motor in a 6th gen, wouldnt be as tight of a fit as it is in a 5th gen, so the radiator probably could stay the same. i know there is a lot more room in my engine bay with the 3s in it, then there was when that same motor was in the alltrac clip i got.

if you read through that guys site, youll see just how much custom work had to be done to make it work...i give him lots of props. it looks like it was a very hard swap.
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I agree, the 6th gen has Loads of room under the hood. I would probably get a 5sfe or some other (have not researched it) Koyo radiator off of e-bay to cool the engine. That with super thin fans woudl be no problem for clearance. I would build all custom mounting brackets, and would have to do something new with the mounts themselves. The guy Adrian with the 5th gen filled them with eurathane, and that would work i guess.

Getting the engine to fit and mounted is no problem. Yea, there is some cutting and welding, but that's nothing if you have a plasma cutter and a welder. My only worry is I have no TIG welder, but if Mig is good enough to hold a frame together, it's good enough for engine mounts.

The wiring is my only worry. That's what I am in the process of mapping out right now.

[Jeremy1210]

Heres the engine for you. Not to bad price either

1mzfe enigne

new crank for it too

new crank

I've been wanting to do this swap for the past 3 years since i read about Adrians. If you do it, big time kudos to you. I wish I had the money for it

JEremy

[FallenHero]

I'm from Alabama dude, I could have the same engine out of a local junk yard for like... $300 .