7AFE Internals Performance, NA Performance Options

[GTAlmond]

Does anyone know if there are any performance internals out there somewhere for the 7AFE engine.

This is sorta what i really want to do.

4A-GE Cylinder Head, (Havent decided red or black top)
Lightened and shorter stroke crankshaft, (I know it might lesson the engine size because the stroke will be smaller, but i think the higher revs will fix that.)
Shorter & lighter & Forged piston arms
Flatter and shorter & Forged performance pistons.
Lighter valves.
Harder valve springs.
Lighter camshaft with a bit more lobe to them.
Bore out the cylinder to what is feasible.
Pulleys.
Intake
Injectors
Fuel Pump

And then

6 speed tranny??????

And then once i get that far, after a couple years of recouperating the cash flow, i might buy in for a turbo.

I found a couple places that actually supply the stuff i am looking for, But just need some ppl's opinion

Is it feasible, reasonable, ect ect.

Thanks all.

GTAlmond

[FallenHero]

Does anyone know if there are any performance internals out there somewhere for the 7AFE engine.

This is sorta what i really want to do.

4A-GE Cylinder Head, (Havent decided red or black top)
Lightened and shorter stroke crankshaft, (I know it might lesson the engine size because the stroke will be smaller, but i think the higher revs will fix that.)
Shorter & lighter & Forged piston arms
Flatter and shorter  & Forged performance pistons.
Lighter valves.
Harder valve springs.
Lighter camshaft with a bit more lobe to them.
Bore out the cylinder to what is feasible.
Pulleys.
Intake
Injectors
Fuel Pump

And then

6 speed tranny??????

And then once i get that far, after a couple years of recouperating the cash flow, i might buy in for a turbo.

I found a couple places that actually supply the stuff  i am looking for, But just need some ppl's opinion

Is it feasible, reasonable, ect ect.

Thanks all.

GTAlmond
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if you want to loose stroke get a 4age. they have a stronger block and are 1.6ltr 'a' series engines.

[GTAlmond]

I dont want to lose stoke, however, i want a better revving engine, Shes already limited to 5800 RPM, but with all of the lightened internals i hope to be at 6800-7000 rpm.

Theres no replacement for displacement.

No one really ever talks about the Naturally Aspirated ways of making horse power on this forum, mostly just engine swaps, turbo, and suprcharging.

Plus im a little bitter and jealous of the 2.2 GTs

[nik]

ask edo he has a n/a 7afe thats built

all so from what you said i would go with 20v black or silver top with a 6 speed tranny swap then beef up the internals and bore it out to 1.8l heck sleve it to 1.9l
just a few ideas

This post has been edited by nik: Dec 7, 2004 - 1:28 PM

[FallenHero]

take the 7a, bore it to 82mm, get some 2zzge pistons and rods, and call it a day. That will have the bottom end ready to handle your 7k goals no problem. For the head i wouuld go with the 4ag small port (as Kwanza will porbably point out. ). It's great for NA high RPM glory. Get a set of 270+ duration cams with high lift, and these ( http://www.sportcompactwarehouse.com/supertech/TIVN-1020 ) valves. Couple that together with some nice machine work and you will be making HELLA Na power for a celica.

[nik]

you know we should compile a list of Performance parts for the 7afe build up

[Kwanza26]

ask edo he has a n/a 7afe thats built

all so from what you said i would go with 20v black or silver top with a 6 speed tranny swap then beef up the internals and bore it out to 1.8l heck sleve it to 1.9l
just a few ideas
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These engines aren't exactly the sleeving type... just machine bore... ;]

Umm... don't go 20V unless you're ready to set-up some sort of standalone or wanna scour through endless piles of wires and diagrams (or lack of). It's hard... trust me. The stock 7A bottom end should be able to handle upwards of 7K pretty easily. I believe many of the Euro versions are fuel cut at 7k rpms... so a little bit beyond with some re-conditioning should be fine. You don't have to lose stroke... in fact, if you feel you need to lose stroke... just get rid of the engine all together and get a 4AGE as mentioned. Much stronger all the way around. As nik said... you can bore out as big as 83mm and keep the 7A stroke value of 85.5 which will put you around 1.9 liters. That's plently and pretty much max as far as bore goes. People have fitted 2ZZGE pistons into the 7A block, possibly the 2ZZGE rods will fit also with some machining. The A series engines are some of the MOST well documented engines in terms of building and tuning for import cars.

As for parts... you'd want a longer rod if at all possible. Longer rods reduce stroke force on the crank because of less piston travel, but also lose high revs due to piston dwelling. It's a give take game. The stock 7A bottom actually has a pretty decent rod/stroke ratio when it comes to revving. It's as good as Honda B18C bottom-ends and those can spin upwards of 8-9k if built... Another general idea when it comes to valvetrain... if you choose to go with lighter valves, harder springs are less neccesary. Hard springs, although can protect the engine and increase revving potential, can also have a bad effect. Gotta work valves, springs, shims, retainers, etc, all in conjunction. There are many many things that I can cover... but that'll just get too long. Engine building and tuning is best learned through experience, instead of taught through words.

The reason you don't see a lot of Toyota guys go with n/a set-ups... simply because of custom work and finances. It's hard to plan things and then realize there is a HUGE lacking of parts you can use. Things always end up being custom and always end up becoming very expensive. Toyotas in the US also have a big lacking in performance tuneability. 90% of Toyota cars in production today that are sold in the US are designed for economy and low-end response. These engines are difficult to build and tune n/a because the results are always not quite worth the money. People would rather just throw on a turbo set-up or Supercharger and gain immediate power. Bang for the buck. I however... crave the high revving power of n/a so I'll always look to that route. I'm probably one of the very few here and does... Personally, I'm gonna undertake a 7AGE 20V project. I basically have all of the parts and the tools to get it done. It's whether or not I can finance it. If I sell one of my cars this December... then my 7AGE 20V project is a GO and I expect to have it up and running by next year. Good luck... feel free to ask if you have any inquiries...

[GTAlmond]

See this is all for the engine, but there are other facts that i need to take into account.

One, Aerodynamics.
Two, Traction.

So many other things

Need to figure this out tiers.

Gtalmond

[SlowCelica94]

Tires? Big deal. Get Falken Azenies. Those will be a great drag/street tire. Need more? Slicks.

[st_celica_killer]

so would the 2zzge pistons could fit into the 7afe block without any problems??... so would that give a higher compression..ratio...????

[FallenHero]

you have to machine the block to fit 2zz pistons. I havn't seen the 2zz head, so I don't know about compression. It would probably skyrocket...

Yo Kwanza, what's the word on the 20v head fitting? I have heard the water inlets and such didn't line up quite right and caused problems. Also there is a Huge lack of 20v parts in america when comparing with the smallport. Where are you going to get cams, seals, timing belt. etc? or are you going to leave it stock?

I would think a worked small port woudl yield better gains, but you know better than I. so i am curious as to why you chose that swap... VVT isn't that great.

[Kwanza26]

you have to machine the block to fit 2zz pistons.  I havn't seen the 2zz head, so I don't know about compression.  It would probably skyrocket...

Yo Kwanza, what's the word on the 20v head fitting?  I have heard the water inlets and such didn't line up quite right and caused problems.  Also there is a Huge lack of 20v parts in america when comparing with the smallport.  Where are you going to get cams, seals, timing belt. etc?  or are you going to leave it stock? 

I would think a worked small port woudl yield better gains, but you know better than I.  so i am curious as to why you chose that swap...  VVT isn't that great.
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I'm not doing it for VVT... ;] I'm doing it mostly for ITBs and just because I'll have a spare 20V. As for water inlets and such... I'll check that out tomorrow. I haven't heard much about things relating to a 7AGE 20V because it's a pretty rare conversion, but I'll check it out. Regardless, I have access to all tools needed to do custom fabrication so waterlines shouldn't be a huge problem. From the looks of it, it's set-up quite similar to the 7AFE. I'm aware of the lacking of parts also, but believe it or not, many 4AG 16V parts fit fine. I'm also gonna go DIS set-up with megasquirt so tune-up parts shouldn't be much trouble either, mainly dizzy parts. Most seals are pretty interchangeable aside from head stuff, and gaskets can be custom made. The timing belt will be a mystery, but I'll figure that out. I don't have any solid answers, but it shouldn't be too bad... ;]

[FallenHero]

trying to be mister original ehh? good luck, I'd love to hear the gains for NA. You going to use stock cams? (they probably don't even have aftermarket in japan though...)

will the megasquirt activate the VVT?

[Kwanza26]

trying to be mister original ehh?   good luck, I'd love to hear the gains for NA.  You going to use stock cams?  (they probably don't even have aftermarket in japan though...)

will the megasquirt activate the VVT?
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You'll have to do a custom set-up to have megasquirt run VVT... but as is, no. Gotta build some sort of signaling device to run proper voltage at certain rpms to activate VVT... As for camshafts... the stock specs is something like 250 duration and 7.6 lift... which should be ok for most modifications. The only available option that I know of is Toda... at about 450.00 a pop... 8-O

[FallenHero]

I might have made this up... but somewhere I read about a person using the electronics from a shift light to run TVIS. I bet you could use the same thing for VVT if all it requires is an electronic signal to start the process.

[Kwanza26]

I might have made this up... but somewhere I read about a person using the electronics from a shift light to run TVIS.  I bet you could use the same thing for VVT if all it requires is an electronic signal to start the process.
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hmm... food for thought... ;]

[GTAlmond]

Well, Tires, Suspension, brakes, wheels ect.

Just things like that.

I really am a stickler for making sure that all the angles are right so that i get the best ride for what i got, you just cant slam a car to the ground and put the biggest tires and wheels on it you can. There is a lot of engineering that goes into figuring out the best angles for the most amount of traction and wear pattern.

I probably am gunna find some custom cams. Which aint gunna be easy, but once i map out the cams from the 4age heads, i should be able to get an idea of how much i want to increase the lobe size for longer duration with the best overlap timing.

$480 a pop really isnt that bad, for Performance cams and such.

The main thing i am really going to have to mostly worry about is gunna be the standalone 'puter. I'm looking into some of the aftermarket ones that were built for the supra. I hear it is a real power booster because you can completely map out the fuel system in the computer, and adjust fuel load at every 50 rpm.

I think they cost around 5000.

Gtalmond

[GTAlmond]

Oh yeah, and it can be set up for 4-12 cylinders, so very adaptable

[FallenHero]

wow, umm. $450 is a Hell of a lot for cams... HKS can be had for almost half that... others for even less. For custom cams, call ELprototype (I think...) but if you are wanting cams for the 7a, don't bother. they won't be worth the money. If you are looking to pour money in, do the 4ag head swap onto a built bottom end.

For the standalone, go with a Megasquirt because they are cheap and just as good as anything else. How cheap? WAY under $500. If you want to blow money on a name get the AEM EMS. It's the best I have read about.

But for what you are describing, there is really no need for a standalone. A piggyback set up would work just fine as long as you aren't using some crazy engine that cannot be wired to work in our chassis. Were I to try and run a beams engine, I would go standalone. Building the 7a.... I think not. For less than $300 you could have an Apexi Super AFC which would be more than enough to tune the car. OR, for a little money a Greddy E-Manage would be perfect for tuning.

This post has been edited by FallenHero: Dec 10, 2004 - 4:15 PM