I Need Serious (old Celica) Help! Options

[Coomer]

I'm getting so sick of my '88 Celica GT-S. I've asked on 4GCelica.net and ToyMods, and I've searched four hours on those sites, Celica.net, Toyspeed, and Google, but I can't find anything useful.

My car had what I thought was the typical "GT-S starter issue." Basically, what happens is that most of the time the car starts. When it starts, it cranks to life quickly. The other few times, the car won't start. It won't even try to crank; You can just hear stuff click.

According to nearly all GT-S owners, this is caused by resistance that builds up in the switched +12volt starter wire over the years. So the solution is to cut this wire as close to the starter as possible, hook the starter side up to terminal 87 of a SPDT relay and 30 to a fuse and then to the battery(both large gauge wires...most people use 12-14...I used 10.) Then the ignition side of that wire goes to terminal 85, and terminal 86 goes to ground. Though most GT-S owners don't understand the concept of a SPDT relay, it works for them.

So I pulled out the cruise control, battery, and intake only to do this, only to find that this had already been done at some point before I bought the car. It was an ugly job where crimp on connectors and 14 gauge wire was used, so I replaced the wires with larger gauge wires. I put the car back together, and everything started fine for a while.

A couple days later, the car wouldn't start, after about 20 minutes of trying. I had to call my parents who were 30 minutes away to have my dad help me push start the car. Did more research, and someone thought it could be the clutch switch, so I bypassed that with a piece of wire and the car started to life.

A week passed with flawless starts and it was the morning of my final review for Calculus. Turned the key, and nothing. Tried again several times; Nothing. Jump started the car(knowing it probably wouldn't work) and nothing. With no-one at the house to help me push-start the car(like I'd done many times with people in the past when it wouldn't start after 10 minutes of trying), I went inside and missed my final calculus review.

Did more research, and found that Toyota starter contacts often go bad. So I went and got the starter rebuilt, including having new contacts installed. They showed me my old ones, and they were hardly worn away, unlike most people with my problem. The guy at the store commented that in lots of Toyotas, the constant power wire to the starter goes bad after a while. So I went to the stereo shop, got some four gauge wire, and got home and replaced the existing(8 gauge I think...possibly 10) constant +12volt starter wire.

I put everything back in, knowing that for sure this had to fix my problem. It can't be fuel/spark because the car push-starts every single time flawlessly. The SPDT relay that I installed always clicks over, so I know it's not the ignition switch or ECU or anything like that. This had to be it.

So I test started the car, and it cranked right to life. Worked perfectly every time again. I drove the car all over, over 1,000 miles, and was finally glad the car was working right.

Until last night. I was at work, and again, the car wouldn't start. Exact same problem as before. After trying and trying, I had to get people from work to help me push start the car.

I went over all the reasons for why a fourth gen. Celica doesn't start in the Toyota BGB with a fellow member of 4GCelica.net, and I can ensure that every single thing Toyota lists as a possibility for having the car not start works.

So I don't know what to do at this point. Everyone I've talked to has no idea. I contemplated taking it to Toyota, but can't afford it and they'd probably do what I've done, only to have the problem resurface in a week or something. No-one I've found has ever had this much trouble with the starter on their fourth gen., and everyone is confused. I'm angry because the car ruins my plans and constantly has problem after problem.

Anyone have any ideas?

[Digndoug]

Well , like u said, take it to toyota. I would just ask if you could possible ask a question to a mecahnic or someone that knows somthing. Say you need to order a part, cause somtimes it dosnt start, and they'll most likley help u figure out what i might be, if not just a pos. I did this a few times with my bimmer, and they were allways quick to help. even when i said i couldnt buy anything.

Also Whenn looking in the book, did you try replacing the ignition switch?

This post has been edited by Digndoug: Dec 17, 2004 - 11:46 AM

[Coomer]

Yeah, I asked them if they'd ever fixed the starter issue on the GT-S models, and they said "no," but offered me tips on how to fix mine. The same tips I've heard from everyone, the same tips that I thought would work but didn't. I'll probably go back there today at lunch. I need to pick up an oil filter anyway.

And I know it's not the ignition switch. Because of how the SPDT relay works, I know that if it clicks, it's not the ignition switch, fuses, or anything else prior to the two main starter wires. And it always clicks. I'm using a Bosch relay, and I replaced that with another one too, thinking it could possibly be a bad relay.

This post has been edited by Coomer: Dec 17, 2004 - 11:47 AM

[Digndoug]

DANG, so.. how good is your insurance on it..

[Coomer]

DANG, so.. how good is your insurance on it.. 
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Haha, my thoughts exactly. I hate this car with a passion. It's had more problems in 1.5 months than the rest of our family's cars combined have had in the past 3 years. Starter, heater, A/C, lighting, speedometer, tranny, windows, sunroof, etc.

[BlackCelicaGT94]

hey!! bring the car over to seattle and ill have my dad take a look!!

[Coomer]

hey!! bring the car over to seattle and ill have my dad take a look!!
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I might have to do that. You should send this post to him and see if he has any ideas.

[BlackCelicaGT94]

ha my dad know how to use email?? ur funny coomer!


ill read it to him on my break!

[brianforster]

what about using a different start , i mean, your so l33t, couldnt you fabricate another type of starter or something an eliminate the problem all together?

[Coomer]

what about using a different start , i mean, your so l33t, couldnt you fabricate another type of starter or something an eliminate the problem all together?
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No, I wouldn't be able to do that. Using the S-53 mated to the 3S-FE with the different starter on the intake side of the engine would work, but that tranny has different gearing and a different speedometer cable setup and stuff I believe.

My only possible idea is that maybe they messed up when rebuilding my starter. So maybe I need another one.

[BlackCelicaGT94]

ok here ya go


he said

I would try the ignition switch 1st thing. It goes there first and normally not a problem for toyota but u have to go back to basic car electronics


if starter is alright most the time the primary wire from batter to starter or ignition switch or clutch safety switch. Those are what usually cause the problem. If either switch cant take the load i twill act like what your talking about.


haha sorry i had to read my short hand! coomer just bring it over! :-) ur more than welcome to anytime!

[Coomer]

I would try the ignition switch 1st thing. It goes there first and normally not a problem for toyota but u have to go back to basic car electronics

I'm 100% positive it's not the ignition switch. The SPDT relay I added, which is past the ignition switch, clicks every time.

if starter is alright most the time the primary wire from batter to starter

That primary wire was replaced with a brand new four-gauge wire with crimped on connectors. I used heat shrink and electrical tape to ensure that no water or moisture can get into the wire. And part of it is wrapped in heat shielding(where the wire runs right next to the block) and the entire thing is wrapped in split wire loom. The connections are solid on both ends of the wire.

or clutch safety switch.

The clutch safety switch is bypassed. And again, the SPDT relay is past the clutch safety switch. And that relay clicks every time.

haha sorry i had to read my short hand! coomer just bring it over! :-) ur more than welcome to anytime!

You know that if I do that it'll start every time I'm over there...then probably decide not to start when I'm getting gas on the way home. That's how things work with me.

[turboinduction]

Hey Chris,
welcome to the club. If you remember a couple monthes back, I made this exact post with Maxima in place. Unlike the average problems like, wires, starter, battery, etc etc. Mine ended up being my speedometer computer. My problem differed that my car would crank, but crank and crank and never start. No fire, just crank. Yours doesn't crank. Alot of maximas have this starter problem. Either crank,no fire or no crank. Go to www.talkaboutautos.com and click on the maxima section. I have a 1997. Maximas (4th gens) are horrible for starter problems. I'm sure someone has something you haven't done yet. Good luck.

My attempts with just car knowledge:
Maybe the solenoid?
Did you tap the starter when it didn't start?

-Ti

This post has been edited by turboinduction: Dec 17, 2004 - 6:50 PM