Needed input, 7age vs 1mzfe Options

[macavely]

i would go with the 7a... simply because i like the A block .... and getting 300hp from a 4 just makes u feel better well me at least..

[nik]

truth, a dyno would have been great.

I'd have my crank crayo treated.  I hear it greatly improves te strength of heavy wear rotating parts.  I would also think about having the rods pistons and bearings treated.

For big boost I would also step up the 82mm pistons.

250+ hp with 8-1 compression means LOTS of boost.  That is no problem with good pistons and rods... I would definitly look into your options as to the crank though.  New studs all over the block also are important.(mostly head studs)  and don't skimp on a cheaper head gasket.  For Serious boost and high power aplications I would go HKS or TRD or somehting made for the power.  Copper... I would dodge.  It might work, but I would rather know I didn't buy the cheapest.  The same goes for the exhaust manifold.  i don't really know which you are going to use, However:  HKS does make a manifold for the 4ag.  I think it supports a T-25 or something... I am sure it can be made to hold a T-3 hybrid... or you can get a custom equal length from somewhere.

If you go largeport head I would try and build a custom largeport intake manifold.  Instead of eight runners I would use four huge really short runners with a large TB.  Not to mention a BIG Honkin intercooler.  This is another place that you cannot afford to skimp.  When running high boost I would have a water sprayer that woudl kick in at given RPM's.  you should PM me and I will help you build one.  I have all these good ideas you know.

hrm... evil clutch also needed... Monsta injectors... what size are you going to use?

I would have a regular exhaust system (3ish inch) with proper resonators and muffler for regular driving, but I would install a remote exhaust bypass valve for high horsepower high boost levels.

Also I would MOST CERTAINLY invest in a wideband O2 sensor. 

I have a really nice Autometer dual imput temperature sensor set up I can sell you if you want it.  They are like $300 new.  I'd let you have it for $100 shipped or something.  They (two of them:dual imput) read up to 400.  Most people use them to guage intake temp.  I was going to use it as a intake and piro meter though.

Anything I can help you with man, just let me know.

Jon
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the crank is my biggest problem there are no after market ones so im going to have to make do with the 7afe crank with treatment etc .

82mm would be nice but i might stay 81mm dont know at this stage

pistons i wanted to go 8.5:1 but 8.0:1 is safer what do you think?

ARP head studs for 4age ordered still need more hardware

exhaust an head will be metal hk$ or trd

hks manifold is 250 shipped on a few sites still talking with froutou about a custom one like his.

turbo will be a T3 super 60 or t3 t4

the manifold thing Kwanza sent me a small port not knowing i wanted a big port just a little miss communcation.But im not sure what to do ive see the DIY manifolds on ebay or getting a big port manifold from kwanza??

i already have a intercooler lined up that supports 500 horse and its big

pm me some info on the water sprayier system if you would and will chat

well the clutch still trying to figure out what i want

injectors i have some 440 but i need to upgrade into 550cc+

for this project diffent 3 inch exhaust but thats last on the list

that remote exhaust system is trick but spendy maybe later down the road

pm me some info on your autometer and well talk

[FallenHero]

OOOk.

Compression wise... 8-1 is great for high boost... it is. However. when you are in traffic and you are not in the right power band (no real boost) your car will be hella slugish. like... 60hp under the hood. You might talk to quanza about it, I am sure he has experiance, but I would go for the 8.5 at least.

For the intercooler sprayer i would go to a junk yard and find a really new car. Pop the hood and take the windshield washer pump.

Rig up some sort of reservoir under your hood and run a line from it to the washer pum you got. (wire it to a dash switch or in the case I described above, to a RPM activated switch like a shift light or something off of E-bay.) Run the water to some sort of sprayer near the intercooler. you can regulate the pressure it puts out via a ressistor of some sort.

Wham, works like a charm.

the 440 injectors will work until you get the car running right.

For the manifold....I am strictly speculating and have NO first hand knowledge of anybody doing this. That said... Talk to kwanza or go to www.club4ag.com and find a 8 runner manifold. Go to a good shop and get yourself a plasma cutter to work with.

Cut the center divide out of the runners so there is, in essence, one big runner. Then weld a plate on top and bottom ... welding on a cast manifold.. hrm... Give me time to think on this one.

The exhaust set up is much cheaper than you would think. I just don't have the link on me right now.

all for now.

Ah yes, the crank. I have read somewhere that the 1zz crank will work in one way or another. I am going to research that as soon as I have time. There is lots of speculation, but no hard answers.

Now, that is all for now.

Later

jon

[Kwanza26]

Lots of stuff here...

First off, the intake manifold. Typically speaking, the longer the runner length, the more intake charge, the more velocity, more torque. Between the smallport and bigport, because the bigport is dual runner, it's actual volume might be the same as the smallport, if not a bit less. The bigport intake manifold was designed for TVIS and was designed for torque, so its runners are slightly longer than the smallport's by maybe an inch or so, and from the looks of it, if you combine each individual runner, they probably won't add up to more volume than the smallport. The smallport on the other hand, IMO, might flow just as well as the bigport's because it's a single runner manifold... but because it's shorter, it won't have as much velocity charge. That's just the intake manifolds... The heads alter this a bit. The smallport manifold does bolt up to the bigport... but the ports won't line up. Basically nik... if you want to use the smallport intake manifold, you can, if you don't mind purchasing a bigport-->smallport adaptor plate. They're probably about 110-115 shipped from Techno Toy Tuning. These are usually for installing smallport 4AGEs into AE86's using the AE86's RWD bigport intake manifold... but will work just opposite. You might need some longer studs though... I am more than happy, however, to replace that intake manifold for you. It's up to you.

Now for compression... lower compression, believe it or not, will hurt the engine's ability to make power. The idea behind lower compression with forced induction engines, is to make them safer and more reliable. Lower compression with boost is more resistant to heat and will detonate less, and be much cleaner because it requires less fuel to prevent leaning out. Compare the power differences between the 1st gen 4AGZE, 8:0:1, and the later models JDM models at 8:9:1. The power difference between the two engines (145 and 165-170 respectively) is due a lot to the compression difference. The boost difference between the two is small, I think 8psi for the old one, and 9-10 psi for the newer ones. Basically, higher compression can increase potential power per psi, but will also require more fuel. Personally, if I were to do a 7AGTE... I would just get some JDM 4AGZE pistons (8:9:1) on the stock bottom-end. These are high enough compression that the car won't be a total dog during boost lag. If 250-300 whp is the goal, I can see the stock bottom-end holding that. AT the most, I'd have the crank and rods reworked a bit, to get rid of weak spots that are typical of production casting process.

Now for injectors... depending on which harness and ECU you get, be careful with your injector choice. Make sure you match impedence... which most of the older 4AG's use low-impedence, while the newer ones use high impedence.

[FallenHero]

http://forums.club4ag.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=99162



Edit: nm. he seems to have nothing you really need.

This post has been edited by FallenHero: Mar 2, 2005 - 12:21 AM

[nik]

First off, the intake manifold.  Typically speaking, the longer the runner length, the more intake charge, the more velocity, more torque.  Between the smallport and bigport, because the bigport is dual runner, it's actual volume might be the same as the smallport, if not a bit less.  The bigport intake manifold was designed for TVIS and was designed for torque, so its runners are slightly longer than the smallport's by maybe an inch or so, and from the looks of it, if you combine each individual runner, they probably won't add up to more volume than the smallport.  The smallport on the other hand, IMO, might flow just as well as the bigport's because it's a single runner manifold... but because it's shorter, it won't have as much velocity charge.  That's just the intake manifolds... The heads alter this a bit.  The smallport manifold does bolt up to the bigport... but the ports won't line up.  Basically nik... if you want to use the smallport intake manifold, you can, if you don't mind purchasing a bigport-->smallport adaptor plate.  They're probably about 110-115 shipped from Techno Toy Tuning.  These are usually for installing smallport 4AGEs into AE86's using the AE86's RWD bigport intake manifold... but will work just opposite.  You might need some longer studs though...  I am more than happy, however, to replace that intake manifold for you.  It's up to you. 


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well i'm dont sure what to do about this (intake manifold)
1. buy a adapter plate
2. just get the big port manifold ( which i dont need TVIS )

i need some help what would you guys do?

[FallenHero]

I would go on www.club4ag.com and see what they use. There are big ports on there making 3-400 whp via turbo. As built as the bottom ends are, I am sure they aren't skimping on the intake manifold. look that shat up.

[nik]

I would go on www.club4ag.com and see what they use.  There are big ports on there making 3-400 whp via turbo.  As built as the bottom ends are, I am sure they aren't skimping on the intake manifold. look that shat up.
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thanks for the bump over in www.club4ag.com

well alot of the big hp guys all are going custom which is to expensive at this time for me

[DustyBurns30]

in my opinion, if you want to make huge amounts of boost just go with a gze short block. the small amount of displacement difference won't be that big of a deal.

[FallenHero]

well, the 7a block is fairly stout, but true enough, the later GZE and others as well with the 7 rib block.. it can take a beating and keep going. Plus I believe there are forged cranks, rods, pistons available. AND the Head is super modifiable. Great engine... and there are stroker kits that can bring it back to around1.8 I believe.