Celica - Prelude, Questions about speed differences. Options

[tomazws]

Why not the MR2? Even though it's a lot more expensive, you get 3SGTE built-in and don't have to worry about troubles during the engine swap. I'd never leave the Toyota world, unless we're talking about the RX-7...

[lagos]

Oh ok, well in that case, I'd probably go with the Celica, although the Celica with a swap will probably be more unreliable. But the Celica has the Prelude beat in looks and interior IMO, and the Celica is also more rare, lighter, and faster(with a 3S-GTE swap.)
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i agree with coomer. if you want a super realiable car, get one that has never been modified in any way shape or from like a stock prelude. if you want a project car, and seomthing that is faster then do the swap.

[nObOdy]

Does anyone know how much torque the 3s-gte engine puts out? is there some kind of information page i can look at ?/ thanks in advance!

[soltrain]

Is this your first car? or more specifically is this the first car you intend to purchase and modify?

If so, i am sorry to say that i would go with the Prelude simply because it has a lot of aftermarket support and can get you the power to weight that you want without the daunting task of a swap. If this is your first car, get the Prelude and use its great aftermarket to work on the car and learn about tuning gradually. A Full engine swap is a huge thing to take on right at the start. Even if you do get it professionally done, there will be some problems that you will need to work out yourself. If you dont know what your doing, then youll just be throwing money at it. Also with a swap, there will be large periods of time when you will not have the car. Can you afford to live without transportion for unexpected, unknown periods of time?

IMO, the celica is one of the best used cars you can get. It handles better than most new cars and looks better too. And you wont find a better community than this one here at 6gc. But its slow, super slow. Take all this into account when you make your decision.
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Very good advise.

[saleeka]

how much power the 3S-GTE puts out depends on the generation of 3S-GTE...

1st gen- 185 PS, 24.5 KG (approx. 182 HP, 177 lb)
2nd gen- 225 PS, 31 KG (221 HP, 224 lb)
3rd gen- 255 PS, 31 KG (251 HP, 224 lb)
4th gen- 260 PS, 33 KG (256 HP, 238 lb)

[nObOdy]

I know how much horsepower they have - how much TORQUE do they have??
does it matter in a race about torque at all???
thanks..
nobody

[ghostdog]

I know how much horsepower they have - how much TORQUE do they have??
does it matter in a race about torque at all???
thanks..
nobody
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how much power the 3S-GTE puts out depends on the generation of 3S-GTE...

1st gen- 185 PS, 24.5 KG (approx. 182 HP, 177 lb)
2nd gen- 225 PS, 31 KG (221 HP, 224 lb)
3rd gen- 255 PS, 31 KG (251 HP, 224 lb)
4th gen- 260 PS, 33 KG (256 HP, 238 lb)
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[recneps]

if youve got the 10 grand to spend on a celi and a swap why not just buy a 7th gen. really fast, will kill any close to stock 5th gen out there and probabyl most 3s celicas.

i mean think of it this way mina is the only one on these boards to take his celica to the track. he was pushing nearly 250whp and if i remember his time really was not all the impressive like low 14's or high 13's. ive seen a 7th gen do a lot better than that with 2 mods. some where in the 13.7XX.

plus it looks super new. and lift is amazing.

[nObOdy]

Um isnt that stating weight in lbs?? and not torque?? thats what i could have swear that he meant...

[ghostdog]

I'm sorry but what in gods name are you talking about? yes there were some 7th gens running 13s with tuned Power FC's and a bunch of other mods (including drag tires) but are these cars reliable after such extensive modifications, I would think not. the 3sgte is no joke, the 7th gen owners drool at our ability to swap this engine into our cars and some have even spent exorbent amounts of money to shoehorn this very engine in their cramped engine bays.

if youve got the 10 grand to spend on a celi and a swap why not just buy a 7th gen. really fast, will kill any close to stock 5th gen out there and probabyl most 3s celicas.

i mean think of it this way mina is the only one on these boards to take his celica to the track. he was pushing nearly 250whp and if i remember his time really was not all the impressive like low 14's or high 13's. ive seen  a 7th gen do a lot better than that with 2 mods. some where in the 13.7XX.

plus it looks super new. and lift is amazing.
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no thats torque for the JDM spec engines

Um isnt that stating weight in lbs?? and not torque?? thats what i could have swear that he meant...
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[wind]

if youve got the 10 grand to spend on a celi and a swap why not just buy a 7th gen. really fast, will kill any close to stock 5th gen out there and probabyl most 3s celicas.

i mean think of it this way mina is the only one on these boards to take his celica to the track. he was pushing nearly 250whp and if i remember his time really was not all the impressive like low 14's or high 13's. ive seen  a 7th gen do a lot better than that with 2 mods. some where in the 13.7XX.

plus it looks super new. and lift is amazing.
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rofl..... seventh gen beating a 3sgte

250whp with what? 180 lbs of torque...... so the 7th gen weighs in at virtually the same weight but has the same hp and less torque....

sorry, but 7th gen would lose.... plus its ugly and poorer quality

This post has been edited by wind: Mar 16, 2005 - 12:46 AM

[prpnum1]

if youve got the 10 grand to spend on a celi and a swap why not just buy a 7th gen. really fast, will kill any close to stock 5th gen out there and probabyl most 3s celicas.

i mean think of it this way mina is the only one on these boards to take his celica to the track. he was pushing nearly 250whp and if i remember his time really was not all the impressive like low 14's or high 13's. ive seen a 7th gen do a lot better than that with 2 mods. some where in the 13.7XX.

plus it looks super new. and lift is amazing.

WOWZERS!!!!!!!!!!! this guy should be banned from 6gc. lol

[Kwanza26]

His argument makes fine sense to me. Torque doesn't mean much if it's all located in the wrong place or if the driver cannot utilize the torque band. The 2ZZ may only make 130 or so ft lbs of torque, but if it can sustain it longer than a 3SGTE... it can out-accelerate a 3SGTE. That's not saying either engine is bad... but don't be quick to judge a pure horsepower engine if you don't know its potential.

So far on paper... 3SGTE swapped Celicas are very tough to drive fast from a stop. The 7th gen GTS is tough also... but it's not as hard as a 3SGTE swapped celica. Driver's excluded, I'd give it to the 3SGTE... but with only decently skilled drivers... an unexperienced driver with a 3SGTE Celica isn't gonna do too well...

I do agree that the 7th gens are fugly...

This post has been edited by Kwanza26: Mar 16, 2005 - 1:27 AM

[soltrain]

"Um isnt that stating weight in lbs?? and not torque?? thats what i could have swear that he meant..."


<sigh> torque is measured in ft/lbs. 177lb? What weight would he be talking about?

[nObOdy]

lol i thought he was talking the engine weight....

[lagos]

i have never came accross a 7th gen that was even close to keeping up with me.

the problem with fwd cars is that its hard to really race them at a drag strip without proper tires and drivers skill. put the two cars on a dyno and then you can really tell whats faster. a swaped celica with mods running at 15psi can put down about 235hp to the wheels. a GTS does about 160hp at the wheels with mods.

[presure2]

put the two cars on a dyno and then you can really tell whats faster.

come on, art...who REALLY cares about a dyno queen...i dont care if the car can make 10000HP...if you cant use it, its usless. how much HP on the dyno does NOT tell you whos FASTER. just who has bragging rights with more HP;)
heres my advice.
dont swap the celica. if you dont wanna work on the car for 5 yrs, you dont want ANY kind of swap or "turbo kit"
you need a car thats got it all stock.(mr2, alltrac, ect.)

[nObOdy]

alright well first off - i dont have 10k to spend on this
i have somewhere near 5-8 though.
I cannot afford to continually be fixing the car - i mean the random sometime problems are normal and expected but, when i swap this engine in - i will change out almost everything that i can so that i do not have to worry about it in the future - i will also definatly tune the engine up - new gaskets new seals new plugs wires collaborations everything my mechanic and i can think of.

If i were to do that - would i still be looking at a car that would break down a lot?

its a stock turboe'd engine - its MADE to handle the turbo the internals are designed for it. I will keep the turbo right at the normal boost so as to evade any nasty enounters with hurting my engine because i set the boost too high.

Why i dont buy an MR2-
Well the 3s-gte that i put into the car will have somewhere around 40,000 to 60,000 miles - and when i retune it up it will be in VERY good shape. if i bought an MR2 with that it would have at least 140k on the engine and chassis.. NOT what im looking for, and thats even if the damned mr2's didnt cost so much..
can anyone tell me if mr2's are mid engine cars?? my father keeps saying they are and i see no indication whatsoever of this but then again - im a noob at this stuff..
another reason i dont buy an MR2 - because i L O V E the bodystyle of the 6gc celica..
i dont know why but it just looks entirely sexy to me, and i love how rare they are and the 3s-gte swap would be.. F. A. S. T.
plus the toyota brand is reliable - the engine would last me a LONG time definatly better than my acura now (its at 196,049 miles..) and its an 88!
keeps breaking down..

How much does torque help in a race?? any ideas on that??

Also - What if i looked into a Acura Integra - A 94-95 and put an h23 block in it and swapped an h22 head on top of it? would that be quick?

anyhow - thanks for all your advice - please keep giving it!
nobody
ps and if any of that is wrong please tell me.. i cant afford to make a mistake on this.. =)

also - my mechanic and i are very close - i call him all the time with problems and i work on cars with him... needless to say he really knows what he's doing, will do it for cheap, and is just a great guy - so if i have issues with the car.. he'd help in no problem.

This post has been edited by nObOdy: Mar 16, 2005 - 3:34 PM

[946thGenGT]

can anyone tell me if mr2's are mid engine cars?? my father keeps saying they are and i see no indication whatsoever of this but then again - im a noob at this stuff..
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This should be indication enough for you. Yes they're mid-engine...


Also, I've always thought that the "MR" in MR2 stood for Mid-engine, Rear drive. Could be wrong but it makes sense.

This post has been edited by 946thGenGT: Mar 16, 2005 - 7:08 PM

[nObOdy]

alright well first off - i dont have 10k to spend on this
i have somewhere near 5-8 though.
I cannot afford to continually be fixing the car - i mean the random sometime problems are normal and expected but, when i swap this engine in - i will change out almost everything that i can so that i do not have to worry about it in the future - i will also definatly tune the engine up - new gaskets new seals new plugs wires collaborations everything my mechanic and i can think of.

If i were to do that - would i still be looking at a car that would break down a lot?

its a stock turboe'd engine - its MADE to handle the turbo the internals are designed for it. I will keep the turbo right at the normal boost so as to evade any nasty enounters with hurting my engine because i set the boost too high.

Why i dont buy an MR2-
Well the 3s-gte that i put into the car will have somewhere around 40,000 to 60,000 miles - and when i retune it up it will be in VERY good shape. if i bought an MR2 with that it would have at least 140k on the engine and chassis.. NOT what im looking for, and thats even if the damned mr2's didnt cost so much..
can anyone tell me if mr2's are mid engine cars?? my father keeps saying they are and i see no indication whatsoever of this but then again - im a noob at this stuff..
another reason i dont buy an MR2 - because i L O V E  the bodystyle of the 6gc celica..
i dont know why but it just looks entirely sexy to me, and i love how rare they are and the 3s-gte swap would be.. F. A. S. T.
plus the toyota brand is reliable - the engine would last me a LONG time definatly better than my acura now (its at 196,049 miles..) and its an 88!
keeps breaking down..

How much does torque help in a race?? any ideas on that??

Also - What if i looked into a Acura Integra - A 94-95 and put an h23 block in it and swapped an h22 head on top of it? would that be quick?

anyhow - thanks for all your advice - please keep giving it!
nobody
ps and if any of that is wrong please tell me.. i cant afford to make a mistake on this.. =)

also - my mechanic and i are very close - i call him all the time with problems and i work on cars with him...  needless to say he really knows what he's doing, will do it for cheap, and is just a great guy - so if i have issues with the car.. he'd help in no problem.
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any of that sound wrong and infeasible?