what type of fuel you guys run on? Options

[GT4WRC]

98RON all the time.

Occasionally run AVGAS in my rally car, but not too often as the lead content has a tendancy to screw up the lambda sensor. Will be getting a different set-up with the rebuild so I can run AVGAS full time.
Gary

[Fietsbel]

V-power, that's Ron100 in germany but Ron97 in holland. It's okay, nothing special or turbo boosting the engine
That is 1.60 euro a liter

This post has been edited by Fietsbel: Mar 26, 2005 - 5:01 PM

[BonzaiCelica]

The highest we have in Cali is 91 octane = 95 ron.

93 octane = 98 Ron
94 octane = 100 Ron
High Compression Dual/Single VVT-i Beams and 3SGTE motors require 100 ron, I believe you can run 98 ron on a 3sgte or 3sge at its full potential in stock form. So an alternative is toluene.

Now, toluene is a natural byproduct of manufacturing gasoline from crude oil, so adding It to your gas tank wont have any adverse effects.

As of 1/1/2017 Toluene is $125 for a 5 gallon at Walmart! YIKES

“Q: Will toluene damage my engine or fuel system?

A: A 5 or 10% increase in the aromatic content of gas will most likely be well within the refining specifications of gasoline defined by ASTM D4814, which specify an aromatic content of between 20% and 45%. What this means is that if the 92 octane gas that you started off with had an aromatic content of say 30% and you increased it by 10% to 40% you would still be left with a mix that meets the industry definition of gasoline. So the above question would amount to: "Will gasoline damage my engine or other parts of my car?"

Even in the unlikely event that the 92 octane gas has an aromatic content of 45% the resulting mix would still be within the bounds of gasoline sold in other countries.”


“Mindful of the evil reputation of octane boosters in general, toluene is a very safe choice because it is one of the main octane boosters used by oil companies in producing ordinary gasoline of all grades. Thus if toluene is indeed harmful to your engine as feared, your engine would have disintegrated long ago, since ordinary pump gasoline can contain as much as 50% aromatic hydrocarbons.

-Toluene is a pure hydrocarbon (C7H8). i.e. it contains only hydrogen and carbon atoms. It belongs to a particular category of hydrocarbons called aromatic hydrocarbons. Complete combustion of toluene yields CO2 and H2O. This fact ensures that the entire emission control system such as the catalyst and oxygen sensor of your car is unaffected. There are no metallic compounds (lead, magnesium etc), no nitro compounds and no oxygen atoms in toluene. It is made up of exactly the same ingredients as ordinary gasoline. In fact it is one of the main ingredients of gasoline.
-Toluene has a RON octane rating of 121 and a MON rating of 107, leading to a (R+M)/2 rating of 114. (R+M)/2 is how ordinary fuels are rated in the US. Note that toluene has a sensitivity rating of 121-107=14. This compares favorably with alcohols which have sensitivities in the 20-30 range. The more sensitive a fuel is the more its performance degrades under load. Toluene's low sensitivity means that it is an excellent fuel for a heavily loaded engine.

Toluene is denser than ordinary gasoline, Thus combustion of toluene leads to more energy being liberated and thus more power generated. This is in contrast to oxygenated octane boosters like ethanol or MTBE which contain less energy per unit volume compared to gasoline. The higher heating value of toluene also means that the exhaust gases contain more kinetic energy, which in turn means that there is more energy to drive turbocharger vanes. In practical terms this is experienced as a faster onset of turbo boost.

Chevron's 100 octane aviation fuel shows that toluene comprises up to 14% alone and is the predominant aromatic hydrocarbon.

Sunoco 260 GTX has 35-45% Toluene and 50-60% Alkylate and that has a octane rating of “98” (R+M)/2. That’s a race fuel

I also found that 260GT with ethanol has 30-40% Toluene and 80-85% Alkalyte. The Toluene rating dropped 5% because the Ethanol added was 5%, so less Toluene was needed. That is a street legal octane rating of “100” (R+M)/2. And that’s a street legal fuel.

Alkylate(can't be bought) is a high-octane, branched hydrocarbon mostly made of isooctane and isopentane. Isooctane has a octane rating of 100 (R+M)/2

Toluene(sold as Toluol) occurs naturally at low levels in crude oil, but is separated into pure form after the processing of crude oil.

The toluene content is controlled by OSHA, but the alkylate content is controlled by Sunoco, so they can add as much as they please, but can’t add as much toluene. Because toluene is a byproduct of alkylation, and is readily available, we can add that to our gas and save money while getting a higher octane rating.

(whatever octane you normally use)*(gallons of it) + (114)*(gallons of it) / Tank capacity = New octane rating

Integra have 13.2 gallon tank. A GSR with 12:1 CR and TODA VTEC killer cams, ITB’s,etc. And your tuner said you need 100 octane. Now, you can go buy it for $8.50-10 bucks a gallon or make it using 9.2 gallons of 93 octane and 4 gal of toluene.

Using the formula: (93*9)+(114*4.2)/13.2 = 99.68 (R+M)/2

13 gallons of 100 octane is $104 @ $8/gal
13 gallons of 100 octane is $130 @ $10/gal
9 gallons of 93 octane @ $3/gal is $27
4 gallons of toluene at $15/gal is $60
Total is $87
$87 or $104/$130? Which is better for you to get the “same” octane rating?

By “same” I mean this:

“You don't know for sure if you are really getting what is being advertised. You should find out if the fuel inspectors verify the actual octane of the racing gasoline in addition to ordinary gasoline. If you paid $3/gallon and only got 94 or 95 octane instead of 100 octane you may conclude erroneously that your car does not benefit from octane boosting.

You don't know what octane boosters are used in racing gasoline. Worst case scenario is buying leaded racing gasoline without knowing it. Unleaded racing gasoline may still contain damaging octane boosters like MMT or methanol. A very high alcohol content will lead to fuel line erosion, accelerated fuel pump wear, very poor fuel economy and possibly lower performance, as alcohols have a less impressive MON rating than aromatics.

It takes smaller quantities of toluene to achieve the same octane boost comparing 100 octane racing gas.

Racing gas tend to have higher markups being of interest to the performance minded enthusiast and is very likely to be more expensive to buy and use long term than toluene (paint thiner).


This post has been edited by BonzaiCelica: Mar 14, 2017 - 7:35 PM

[delusionz]

Good info, Can anyone confirm this "Faster onset of boost" from using toluene on a JDM 3S-GTE?

[Tony-B]

Maxol E5 (99 octane, so they say) and 360mls of silkolene pro boost per tank.

[BonzaiCelica]

ahemm so anybody else got anything to say about this thread... yay or nay for the toluene mixing

[BonzaiCelica]

uhh anybody, somebody reply to this thread plz. i dont want it to die, is it me or does it seem like i always get the last word to a thread that isnt so popular...

[Rusty]

I think its a good thread, since I was wondering how people where running 18psi and had 93 in.

personally I wounldn't use shells vpower petrol (well from NZ anway)

This post has been edited by Rusty: Sep 4, 2009 - 2:52 AM

[delusionz]

My GT4 responds best to BP Ultimate (98 RON) and Mobil Synergy 8000 (97.5 RON)

When I have mostly 95 in the tank (95 is more readily available in my area) and I punch the gas pedal, the engine slightly hesitates when reaching full boost, It feels as though the knock sensor is doing its job. Hardly ever notice this with BP Ultimate.




With the 3S-GE in the ST202 the difference between 95 and 98 is negligible, but both are alot better than 91.

[BonzaiCelica]

ok thanks. but i was wondering if any buddy in CA has mixed toluen into their gas tanks. Ill guess ill just have to ask at the next meet we have in October....

Urbandork and eggman40 are the only ones that have 3rd and 2nd gen 3sgte...

This post has been edited by BonzaiCelica: Sep 3, 2009 - 12:26 PM

[legalkid86]

i run on bacardi 151..lol

[808celica]

me its 93 octane > food. i can always eat at home so gas comes first.

[Rusty]

please dont turn this thread into 'I run this gas in my celica'

[THE20V]

Does anyone use the ethenol mixed fuel ?

[presure2]

Toulene works. But @ 10$ a gallon or more, prolly better off throwing in a couple gallons of race fuel.
Dustin ( batman722) runs 93 in his 3rd gen swap, without issue, so I would imagine the amount of ra e gas it would take would be small.... Just a matter of doing the math to figure it out

[BonzaiCelica]

ya but thats just us. here in California, the highest octane we get is 91

[BonzaiCelica]

is there any sort of device that you can plug into your gas tank that will tell you how much you have. It will tell you the number of gallons that are left. Cause in order to calculate the right mixture of toleuene with gas, you would need to know how much gas you have in your tank before you fill up.

how much is the cost? i have yet to find out but i sourced this from the link that i posted earlier.

$125 for a 5 gallon tank of Toluene at Walmart as of 1/1/2017. EXPENSIVE

here's the celica formula for mixing toluene:

Toluene = R+M/2... 114 octane

(13 Gallons of 91 octane @ 3 gal) + (2 gallons of toluene for $50, = 15 gal to get 94 octane. Total Cost $89

calculator found here http://www.serioussolutions.com/evo/octcalc.htm



This post has been edited by BonzaiCelica: Mar 14, 2017 - 7:58 PM

[SwissFerdi]

Hey guys, kind of reviving this since I don't feel a new thread is necessary. I just accidentally filled up with premium (not sure of the grade, it's at least 93) since the pump apparently switched the position of the grades and I automatically went for the left-most pump, which is usually 87. This can't harm anything right?

[Culpable04]

yes, damage is already done




to the wallet.

besides that, no, unless you were on a tight budget and the extra bucks spent will be needed for later meals on the week.

[SwissFerdi]

I thought so, just checking. Thanks man. Now to see if the ol' butt dyno notices any difference.

This post has been edited by SwissFerdi: Oct 22, 2009 - 1:44 PM