Hello and a techy question, GT4 Convertible ? Options

[carlosfandango]

Hi, some of you guys may know me from Celicatech / GT4OC / Celica Club UK / TOC etc etc.

I test drove a ST205 a couple of weeks ago and have a unusual question, perhaps its been discussed here before?

its been on my mind for a while, a St205 and ST202 Convertible modification.

using the st205 as the project car and getting hold of a crash damaged cabby to molest and take bits off.

I cant find any info regarding chassis strengthening on the st202 cabby. I know that my convertible was sent from Japan to germany in coupe form and converted by a german coachbuilder, they did all the gen 4 convertibles for the european market and differ from usa version, our hood is manual and has a targe top.

i'm assuming the st202 vert left japan as a convertible and need to know what was done to the chassis.

any ideas?

This post has been edited by carlosfandango: Mar 31, 2005 - 11:43 AM

[lagos]

if you have a vert now, your best bet would be to just swap a 3sgte into it insted of hacking up a gt4.

[Supersprynt]

I'm also confused, you say 4th gen, but then refer to 6th gens. Do you have an ST162 or an ST202?

[carlosfandango]

i have a st162 convertible.

but i'm asking about a st202 convertible being robbed - chopping the top off and strengthening the chassis on a st205.

putting 350bhp to the front wheels in a st202 isnt worth it - it has to be foremost a gt4, a convertible secondarily. the awd isnt worth sacrificing for ease of an engine swap although i have seen it done. retaining awd, modifying suspension and chassis strengthening makes for an altogether better package. now that the prices are dropping it is within reach financialy

afaik the only difference between the st202 convertible and the st202 coupe is a strengthened windscreen pillar and rear strut mounts, but i dont know how different the chassis and floor pan is between the st205 and st202 coupe - that would be a start in finding out the convertible modifications.

This post has been edited by carlosfandango: Mar 31, 2005 - 12:14 PM

[Supersprynt]

Ehh IDK, has this ever been done?

[jgreening]

Its the same as any fwd to AWD conversion - tough to get right, expensive to pay for. On top of that, you will have chassis flex issues at that horsepower. If you want that kind of horsepower in an awd convertible, I suggest a porsche.

[lagos]

no offense to any vert owners, but i could never understand why anyone would want hight hp in a vert. to me the whole idea of a vert is to cruise slowly and enjoy the scenery.
in a fast car i want more protection from having a roof and maby even a roll cage.

[carlosfandango]

I understand all the comments.

This has never been attempted before, would be the worlds first conversion.

Yes, plenty of st202 convertibles or celica convertibles for that matter running 3sgte engine swaps, bleh.

but i think my point is being misunderstood.

1. take a st205. cut off the roof, adapt the body to take the st202 convertible hood, adapt to take trunk lid etc - strengthen the chasiss.

there would be no chasiss strength issue as it would be strengthened were necessary, it would have a mid section roll bar as well as strengthened windscreen pillars adapted from the st202, the suspension would also be modified. the rear seats would be removed for extra strengthening and a ice install added.

i'm not talking a cut and shut, this would all be done properly.

However - what i need to know is how is the stock st202 convertible chasiss strenghtened.

does anyone know where the strengthening points are?

what is the difference between st205 and st202 coupe floor pan?

This post has been edited by carlosfandango: Mar 31, 2005 - 1:58 PM

[carlosfandango]

no offense to any vert owners, but i could never understand why anyone would want hight hp in a vert. to me the whole idea of a vert is to cruise slowly and enjoy the scenery. 
in a fast car i want more protection from having a roof and maby even a roll cage.
[right][snapback]264669[/snapback][/right]

This project would be a show car, and a fast convertible to boot - the worlds first GT4 convertible.

A fast car doesnt need a roof and i have obviously considered chassis strengthening and roll bar etc - that is the purpose of the thread - to research chassis differences.

[shid]

no offense to any vert owners, but i could never understand why anyone would want hight hp in a vert. to me the whole idea of a vert is to cruise slowly and enjoy the scenery. 
in a fast car i want more protection from having a roof and maby even a roll cage.
[right][snapback]264669[/snapback][/right]

Actually lagos, the best times I have in my car are when I drive fast enough that the wind from the road cleans the inside of my car for me. No more loose paper, etc.

[blu94gt]

I think that it could be a fun project. The only thing tho is there is going to be a lot of chassis strengthening required beyond what the convertible already has. The convertible was strengthened for a FWD setup, and the AWD will put even more torque and twist on the reduced frame.

I don't understand the comment about putting the convertible's hood on it? That didn't seem to make much sense...

As for the overall project, the car is going to weigh a lot more when you're done, and probably lose a LOT of handling ability.

I've been thinking of caging my car and chopping the top to a Supra-style targa piece. I've been drawing it up and all and I think I could make it work fairly easily.

[carlosfandango]

I don't understand the comment about putting the convertible's hood on it?  That didn't seem to make much sense...

sorry, in the UK a convertible reclining roof can also be called the hood.

get a grinder and take the roof off the st205 right down to the bottom of the small side window, chop off the door frame around the window , take off the trunk door.

modify the body work and chassis to take the reclining roof and mechanism from a st202 convertible including the windscreen pillars and surround.

belive me, plenty of cars are converted to rag tops.

weight can be reduced but overall wont be that much heavier - i reckon within 100kg's.

This post has been edited by carlosfandango: Mar 31, 2005 - 2:41 PM

[carlosfandango]

The only thing tho is there is going to be a lot of chassis strengthening required beyond what the convertible already has.  The convertible was strengthened for a FWD setup, and the AWD will put even more torque and twist on the reduced frame. 

no, its not swapping the 3sgte and awd into the convertible, its chopping the top off the st205 and fitting the roof to it. so the strength would already be in the st205 chassis for twisting and a mid section roll cage would be used.

am i not being clear?????????

i'm staying at a friends in May for the Japfest UK track day - i'll look at her st202 convertible when i'm there.

[lagos]

well good luck, post pics of your progress.

another thing that will make it harder is that the gt4 is a hatchback and the verts are coupe. so the whole rear end would have to be redone.

[carlosfandango]

yeah I know that. st205 is liftback, st202 vert is coupe.

well i just had it on good authority that the gen 6 convertible arrived in the respective market place as a coupe and was then converted by a 3rd party, at least the USA version was it seems.

So perhaps the gen 6 verts are like the gen 4 in that respect.

Hey i used to take chinook helicopters apart and used to fabricate airframe assembly's for the Ministry of Defence so a little Celica Trunk should be a doddle, just a different metal is all.

thanks for all the replys guys, its hard to get info in the UK as we dont have the coupe version which would be better to compare a convertible with obviously.

i'm sure the floor pan and chassis is different for the coupe and liftback.

ive decided to write to Toyoat GB PLC.

more ideas more than welcome.

cheers

[blu94gt]

what you're also going to find is that between the coupe, GT liftback and GT4 liftback is they're all different. I've never seen a bare GT4 frame but I'm sure it does have some of the AWD strengthening in it, but what I'm also saying is some of that comes through the roof, which the stock convertible doesn't have AWD so the GT4 may just need a higher grade steel or something for the reinforcements. I know you're not converting a convertible to GT4, that would be a lot mroe difficult. But the GT4 to convertible will come out quite differently than the stock Celica convertible. I wanna see when you're done, I think it'll be hawt.

Another idea would be to cage it. Design a rollcage that will not only look good but provide all of the reinforcing that you need.



bars like that would be hott I think.

~Brian

[carlosfandango]

yay, ive seen a guy's gen 4 in Ozz with roll bars like that.

ive found by hunting through the many magazine articles;

the gen 4, consider that was in 1986-87

"The car begins as a coupe in japan, a certain amount of strengthening to maintain torsional rigidity is added to an accpetable level to give the strength needed with the roof removed, all done in the factory in japan by toyota.

It is then shipped to The Voll Company of Wurzburg, Northern Bavaria - Germany, who complete the strengthening required."

in essence they attended to;

Screen Pillars, rear bulk head, front scuttle, sills and doors.

I cant find any info on The Voll Company anywhere so i assume the gen 6 was either done by Baur, Webasto or Pininfarina or some other firm on the mainland.

the problem lies in not knowing what they did exactly to the coupe which was to be used for the convertible.

it would definately mean stripping the entire body of the ST205, possibly lifting the engine aswell.

It would be apparent if the st202c was also lightly stripped in order to see where the strengthening is, use the existing rear bulk head and window pillars and transfer them to the ST205 along with any other panels or pillars, including the doors. then weld the chassis with steel plates and brackets to copy the convertible - retaining its awd strength - how would that drive though - would it be safe, thats the main factor.

[blu94gt]

I would think that you'll have to completely strip the st205 to do a quality job. That way you can have it all painted when you're done too. Seriously I would think just strip it down to bare frame and body work, do all of the customization, THEN before you put any of parts back into it put it on a frame puller to make sure the frame is still straight to factory specifications (i know of many body shops here in the states that have these, i don't know about in the UK)

If I was in the UK I would love to help with this project, I think it would be an amazing custom job. I want to open my own customization shop within a couple years and convertible projects like these would be great. I want to chop a Honda Prelude for all the ricers here in the states

Are you going to use a factory Celica ragtop/top frame/motors? or no top at all? or fabricate your own?

[carlosfandango]

a st202 convertible will be a donor car.

yeah the chassis can be rigged up here in the uk, i'm trying to understand how the gt4 will handle with the diplacement of weight, roof removed and extra strengthening, it would be planted to the ground from what i can gather.

anyone good with the weight displacement of the st205?

I also wish to open a custom shop too and was hoping this project could be used to launch the company in the 2006 season, a 350bhp Toyota Celica GT4 Convertible would get a lot of attention, for wrong and right reasons - publicity is publicity and i'm allready active within the celica modding community in the UK and word spreads. I have corporate membership at CCUK as i'm researching as well as being a member

This post has been edited by carlosfandango: Mar 31, 2005 - 7:20 PM

[jgreening]

It seems to me that modding the convertible to be a awd would be easier than modding a hatchback to be a convertible. I hate to be a pessimist, but I think you should think again about the wisdom of this project. Again, there are plenty of cool high powered convertibles out there to choose from.

Also, Lagos, fast car and drop top are not mutually exclusive. See porsche 911, corvette, ferrari, m3, the list goes on...