Convertibles- Are they really reinforced? Options

[nitemare]

I own a 95 GT Convertible. Little did I know when I opened the door panel, it had a sticker saying top was installed in california. I then found out all the celica's came oversees with hardtops- then chopped off in the states and made into a convertible. This sounds very shady. I have a tough time believing toyota actually reinforced the structure as well. Ive has so many problems with the "aftermarket" convertible. If I knew toyota outsourced this to some company, I would have never bought this convertible. The fact is was a hard top transformed into convertible makes me wonder how safe the car really is..

Can anyone confirm celica was reinforced??

[madmods]

I own a 95 GT Convertible. Little did I know when I opened the door panel, it had a sticker saying top was installed in california.  I then found out all the celica's came oversees with hardtops- then chopped off in the states and made into a convertible. This sounds very shady.  I have a tough time believing toyota actually reinforced the structure as well.  Ive has so many problems with the "aftermarket" convertible. If I knew toyota outsourced this to some company, I would have never bought this convertible.  The fact is was a hard top transformed into convertible makes me wonder how safe the car really is..

Can anyone confirm celica was reinforced??
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asc does nearly all the convertible conversions in the Us for all the big dealerships toyota, chevrolet, etc.
There are federal requirements in place for these cars when they are converted. The chassis is beefed up with inserts added in to the body and doors. Long rails are added from one wheelbase to another to keep the body from flexing. They actually do a pretty good job at it and its not a "shady" job. If it was, the convertible would not be around. Also note that only the big car manufacturers have verts, not the smaller new ones(kia, hundyai, etc) Saturn is making there new vert next year and it looks hot.

I was once told that the windshield pillar is suppose to be able to hold the cars weight up. I don't know if its true, so don't flip your car!

This post has been edited by madmods: Mar 10, 2005 - 6:51 PM

[Coomer]

Are you sure that they were shipped over here as coupes and then modified? I know I've seen ST202 convertibles before.

And even if they were shipped here and modified, Toyota would find someone who does a perfect job to do the work, not your average shop, so you don't need to worry about it.

You should get your car on a lift and take some pictures of the underside if you can...I'm curious to see what it looks like on a convertible.

[madmods]

Are you sure that they were shipped over here as coupes and then modified? I know I've seen ST202 convertibles before.

And even if they were shipped here and modified, Toyota USA would do the work, not your average shop, so you don't need to worry about it.

You should get your car on a lift and take some pictures of the underside if you can...I'm curious to see what it looks like on a convertible.
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The bottom sides are flat and not rounded like the coupes or hatchback. its like they cut into the bottom and added some flatbar all the way across. thats how I was able to fit the 7th gen sideskirts on my car. If it was rounded, it would have not worked.

[shid]

Coomer, ASC is in Arizona. They were shipped here as coupes. I have also seen the ST202 Vert (you showed it to me) and I can only assume either they were shipped out from ASC here in the states, or a different company did them overseas

As far as shoddy work, ASC does very nice work. For instance, they also did the VR4 Spider- which was a hardtop and had to handle upwards of 400hp.

As for being 'really' reinforced, Jay has seen the plans, and I believe has plans to postthem on the site oneday.

[2003cbgts]

dont mean to hijack this thread, but how durable is the celi convet top? is it pretty good at keeping water out? like is it just one layer of protection?

[Insanity-74]

All convertables arrive in the US as hard tops, the vehicle arrives in the U.S. as a partially assembled vehicle. At ASC, the roof is removed and a three-layer insulated and power-operated top is installed. Thats how Celicas become convertables in the US

[saleeka]

A company called Griffen (sp) made the 2nd gen. convertables for Toyota, and 3rd gen onwards have all been ASC (american sunroof corporation). Toyota and ASC have colaberated and cooperated together on all of their celica convertible projects from the 3rg gen's design on, and therefore they are very, very good products. ASC is also responsible for the current and last Toyota Solara convertibles... Also, the vast majority of convertables on the road were all designed with the intention of having a fixed roof, with the convertible 'stiffining added later. there are eare exceptions like the Merc. SL's and SLK's, Porsche boxters, the SC430, ect...

This post has been edited by saleeka: Mar 10, 2005 - 9:43 PM

[DamDirtyApes]

but why put a roof on only to cut it off..?

[jgreening]

Wow. I have never seen a thread with so much misinformation - well maybe threads discussing the mr2t tranny for the 3s swap .

ASC stands for American Specialty Cars. The name was changed in January of 2004 from American Sunroof Corporation. It is a Michigan business. They did chop the coupe and make it a convertible and they did it in a California plant (Pomona, I believe).

I know of no federal requirements for chopping cars and making them convertibles. There are federal safety requirements that apply to all new cars sold including ones that are chopped by another company for the OEM. I do not know if the government regulates things like ridgity though - I would doubt it does.

There are no differences in the doors and there are no extra rails that are added to the bottom of the car. There were no structural modifications that were done in front of the lock pillar (where the door latches to the car by the lock). Most of the structural modifications were done to support the roof and to limit chassis flex.

The Saturn Skye and other cars like the vette, boxster, z4, etc were DESIGNED as convertibles. There was no chop job so the ridgity is better.

Finally, there is NO WAY that the A pillar is designed to hold up if the car rolls. The fact of the matter is that 6th gen convertibles were not designed as performance cars. So, if you do something crazy like swap a 3s in a convertible, please drive safely....

[madmods]

Wow.  I have never seen a thread with so much misinformation - well maybe threads discussing the mr2t tranny for the 3s swap  . 

ASC stands for American Specialty Cars.  The name was changed in January of 2004 from American Sunroof Corporation.  It is a Michigan business.  They did chop the coupe and make it a convertible and they did it in a California plant (Pomona, I believe).

I know of no federal requirements for chopping cars and making them convertibles.  There are federal safety requirements that apply to all new cars sold including ones that are chopped by another company for the OEM.  I do not know if the government regulates things like ridgity though - I would doubt it does. 

There are no differences in the doors and there are no extra rails that are added to the bottom of the car.  There were no structural modifications that were done in front of the lock pillar (where the door latches to the car by the lock).  Most of the structural modifications were done to support the roof and to limit chassis flex.

The Saturn Skye and other cars like the vette, boxster, z4, etc were DESIGNED as convertibles.  There was no chop job so the ridgity is better.

Finally, there is NO WAY that the A pillar is designed to hold up if the car rolls.  The fact of the matter is that 6th gen convertibles were not designed as performance cars.  So, if you do something crazy like swap a 3s in a convertible, please drive safely....
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Thanks J for straightnening some things up, especially about the pillar. I hope I never flip my vert. I cant agree with you on the rails in the bottom, cuz I got them. Its the piece where the sideskirt goes on. it looks like a piece of flat plate that has been welded on. i can't agree with you on the the door pillar where the latches are by the handle.

[saleeka]

And yes Coomer you are right- there are 202 verts, and they were made by ASC as well. As for the JDM convertibles, 88 (4th gen) was the first year for them and they were equipped like the JDM GT-R's right down to the 3S-GE with 140 PS. The 5th gens came in 2 models, convertible, and convertible type G, both having the 165 PS 3S-GE and 4WS. 6th Gens came as 2 models as well, convertible, and type X, with the 180 PS 3S-GE. Last of the line 98's and 99's were 1 model only, and they came with the 200 PS BEAMS 3S (but only auto)... So I wouldent worry about the chassis rigidity being crappy for our tame 5S-FE motor...

[jgreening]

I cant agree with you on the rails in the bottom, cuz I got them. Its the piece where the sideskirt goes on. it looks like a piece of flat plate that has been welded on. i can't agree with you on the the door pillar where the latches are by the handle.

To quote my high school science teacher, you can disagree all you want, it still doesn't change the truth.

In all seriousness, all I am saying is that there may be differences - they just aren't structural. I have seen the ASC drawings so I am quite sure I am correct. Heck, we know that the convertible comes with different sideskirts - no one would claim those provide any structural ridgity. Well, no one who knows what they are talking about.

[jgreening]

And yes Coomer you are right- there are 202 verts, and they were made by ASC as well. As for the JDM convertibles, 88 (4th gen) was the first year for them and they were equipped like the JDM GT-R's right down to the 3S-GE with 140 PS. The 5th gens came in 2 models, convertible, and convertible type G, both having the 165 PS 3S-GE and 4WS. 6th Gens came as 2 models as well, convertible, and type X, with the 180 PS 3S-GE. Last of the line 98's and 99's were 1 model only, and they came with the 200 PS BEAMS 3S (but only auto)... So I wouldent worry about the chassis rigidity being crappy for our tame 5S-FE motor... 
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Saleeka is THE Celica historian! Good work.

[saleeka]

ha thanks... If you have model breakdown/history/equippent questions I typically can tell you what you need to know

[madmods]

I cant agree with you on the rails in the bottom, cuz I got them. Its the piece where the sideskirt goes on. it looks like a piece of flat plate that has been welded on. i can't agree with you on the the door pillar where the latches are by the handle.

To quote my high school science teacher, you can disagree all you want, it still doesn't change the truth.

In all seriousness, all I am saying is that there may be differences - they just aren't structural. I have seen the ASC drawings so I am quite sure I am correct. Heck, we know that the convertible comes with different sideskirts - no one would claim those provide any structural ridgity. Well, no one who knows what they are talking about.
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I'm so tired of arguing with people, I just spent a week doing that on these post. Sideskirts has nothing to do with what i posted. The piece the sideskirts bolts on to is a reinforcement to keep the body from flexing. please don't make me post a picture of it. I dont understand what you mean that there are no structural diiferences. The coupe goes to asc partially assembled where the top is cut and its reinforced in many areas to strenghtened the chassis. This reinforcement means metal is welded on to the chassis for structural strength. So whats your difination of structural? Its difference then mine and I'm not going sit here and say I know it all and say nobody knows anything.

[jgreening]

I cant agree with you on the rails in the bottom, cuz I got them. Its the piece where the sideskirt goes on. it looks like a piece of flat plate that has been welded on. i can't agree with you on the the door pillar where the latches are by the handle.

To quote my high school science teacher, you can disagree all you want, it still doesn't change the truth.

In all seriousness, all I am saying is that there may be differences - they just aren't structural. I have seen the ASC drawings so I am quite sure I am correct. Heck, we know that the convertible comes with different sideskirts - no one would claim those provide any structural ridgity. Well, no one who knows what they are talking about.
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I'm so tired of arguing with people, I just spent a week doing that on these post. Sideskirts has nothing to do with what i posted. The piece the sideskirts bolts on to is a reinforcement to keep the body from flexing. please don't make me post a picture of it. I dont understand what you mean that there are no structural diiferences. The coupe goes to asc partially assembled where the top is cut and its reinforced in many areas to strenghtened the chassis. This reinforcement means metal is welded on to the chassis for structural strength. So whats your difination of structural? Its difference then mine and I'm not going sit here and say I know it all and say nobody knows anything.
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I didn't mean to offend you or argue with you Paul. I can post the diagrams if you want.

[orvillescelica]

im not part of any arguement on the rigidity of the vert, i really have no clue either way...

But if you could post those diagrams Jay, they would be great to see.

[jgreening]

I will post them. I want to say one more thing to madmods. I was not trying to say he implied the sideskirts are structural. I just used that as an example of changes that are not on the diagrams that ended up on the vert. The diagrams include the structural changes that were made.

[madmods]

I cant agree with you on the rails in the bottom, cuz I got them. Its the piece where the sideskirt goes on. it looks like a piece of flat plate that has been welded on. i can't agree with you on the the door pillar where the latches are by the handle.

To quote my high school science teacher, you can disagree all you want, it still doesn't change the truth.

In all seriousness, all I am saying is that there may be differences - they just aren't structural. I have seen the ASC drawings so I am quite sure I am correct. Heck, we know that the convertible comes with different sideskirts - no one would claim those provide any structural ridgity. Well, no one who knows what they are talking about.
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I'm so tired of arguing with people, I just spent a week doing that on these post. Sideskirts has nothing to do with what i posted. The piece the sideskirts bolts on to is a reinforcement to keep the body from flexing. please don't make me post a picture of it. I dont understand what you mean that there are no structural diiferences. The coupe goes to asc partially assembled where the top is cut and its reinforced in many areas to strenghtened the chassis. This reinforcement means metal is welded on to the chassis for structural strength. So whats your difination of structural? Its difference then mine and I'm not going sit here and say I know it all and say nobody knows anything.
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I didn't mean to offend you or argue with you Paul. I can post the diagrams if you want.
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Sorry bro, me too!