If you guys had a 3S-GE Celica would you....., Still deciding! Options

[tomazws]

Come over here and drive an ST, then go home and be happy
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Yea no really...
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****ing sad **** right there but that's so true.....

I wanna cry....

[BLADDER_MASTER]

He doesn't need to come over here. Toyota sold a Celica ST over there.

[TomPoz]

If you can afford GT4 - forget swaps / mods / whatsoever. I have driven GT4 recently and difference to GT in power / handling / acceleration is huge. I would get GT4 for myself but in my country (even though in EU) I would have to add 65% of excise tax to average Europan cost of GT4 - that makes it ridiculously expensive. Though, there was one available here a month ago (import from Italy) for 5k EUR!!! Good shape, just turbo needed repair / replacement. Someone bought it just before me.

This post has been edited by TomPoz: Sep 1, 2005 - 3:07 AM

[yozef]

I understand you. I am in the same situation. Do not know if I should modify the 3sge or change it, or change car.

I love the negine, so reliable, and I think it is quite powerful, especially for its age. I think it is tru the transmission is letting the car down but is there a solution to this?

I think the first three gears are tooooooooo looooonnnnnnnnnngggg!

However just for the record I still got a 15.01 1/4 mile out of my unstripped, no cat but otherwise standard 3s-ge.

[Kadett]

@ Tompoz: We also have to pay a ridiculous price for importing a GT-4 but the price of the car itself is low enough to make it work.

[BLADDER_MASTER]

I understand you.  I am in the same situation.  Do not know if I should modify the 3sge or change it, or change car.

I love the negine, so reliable, and I think it is quite powerful, especially for its age.  I think it is tru the transmission is letting the car down but is there a solution to this?

I think the first three gears are tooooooooo looooonnnnnnnnnngggg!

However just for the record I still got a 15.01 1/4 mile out of my unstripped, no cat but otherwise standard 3s-ge.
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IMO, 1st and 2nd gear are short while 3rd, 4th, and 5th are long. You can try doing what I mentioned earlier by swapping in a USDM 5S-FE S54 transmission. The 5S-FE S54 has shorter gears compared to the 3S-GE S54. But I don't think you can find that transmission outside of the U.S.

I haven't gone to the track to verify, but I feel like my car is running mid-14's with just intake and exhaust on my 3S-GE.

[Hanyo]

i would keep the 3sge.

For some reason, i keep getting the feeling that the 3sgte is a heavy engine. And Weight is always a problem with sports cars. I would just mod the 3sge and be happy with it. After all, the 7afte guys are only getting 180 hp max.

so be happy, you lucky......

[TomPoz]

Kadett, you could always do n/a tuning to 3sge by putting in:
- sporty camshafts
- lighter flywheel
- piggyback with new fuel map

This should give you redline at 8k rpm, ~200 hp and much better torque in lower ranges.

[yozef]

You cannot "feel" a mid 14's you have to time it on a proper track. Do you have the transmission converion yourself?

Is there somewhere documented that gears are shorter on the USD S54?

Finally you cannot rev a car to 8k with a piggyback. You need a complete ECU!

[doGGy]

Well, my mister 2 (mr2) has 3SGE engine in it.. Even if it is 2 gen, but im pretty happy with this engine... Even it is 160 hp only but it is almost enouth for me. And dunno about the 8K rpm, but myne revs nicely till the 8K rpm (not more ofcorse) but no limiter till 7.900 rpm for sure. i was thinking about turboing this engine, but desided to leave it N/A. Gonna do some basic moods on it first, then will see what else is gonna be put on it

[yozef]

Do not know about the rev limiter on the ST but on the GT with 3s-ge its 7200 and you cannot change unless you have a complete diffrrent ECU (AFAIK)

[Kadett]

^^ Yup If you want to go higher then that you will have to replace the ECU!

[TomPoz]

Guys, friend of mine did the forementioned n/a tuning on his GT without piggyback and now his rev limit is 8k rpm.

[BLADDER_MASTER]

You cannot "feel" a mid 14's you have to time it on a proper track.  Do you have the transmission converion yourself?

Is there somewhere documented that gears are shorter on the USD S54?

Finally you cannot rev a car to 8k with a piggyback.  You need a complete ECU!
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The reason why I say I feel like I run mid-14's is because i've ran against cars doing mid-14's and i've either beat them or kept up with them.

I've yet to find documentation showing the gear ratios of the 3S-GE S54, but there is documentation of the 5S-FE S54 gear ratios. But I know for a fact that the gears are different because I noticed the difference after I swapped the engine. Not only that but it's been verified over at MR2OC.com that the gears are different as well.

[Kadett]

1st gear: 3,285
2nd gear: 1,960
3rd gear: 1,322
4th gear: 1,028
5th gear: 0,820
reverse: 3,153
diff: 3,944

This is for my GT from The Dutch Fan Club

From here the gears from US GT

1st gear: 3.285
2nd gear: 1.960
3rd gear: 1.322
4th gear: 1.028
5th gear: .820
reverse: 3.153
diff: 4.176

So bladder was right. Final drive is different. But from what i could tell that should make the car faster in acceleration but lower in top speed! When using the same enginge of course!

This post has been edited by Kadett: Sep 3, 2005 - 2:39 AM

[BLADDER_MASTER]

1st gear: 3,285
2nd gear: 1,960
3rd gear: 1,322
4th gear: 1,028
5th gear: 0,820
reverse: 3,153
diff: 3,944

This is for my GT from The Dutch Fan Club

From here the gears from US GT

1st gear: 3.285
2nd gear: 1.960
3rd gear: 1.322
4th gear: 1.028
5th gear: .820
reverse: 3.153
diff: 4.176

So bladder was right. Final drive is different. But from what i could tell that should make the car faster in acceleration but lower in top speed! When using the same enginge of course!
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Indeed. Thanks for the info Kadett.

[TomPoz]

Well, Kadett - I gave your issue another thought. And I think you are right - there is no need to turbo or swap 3sge. I had plans to do such setup but now changed my mind. I definitely want to have turboed car, but for it to be fun I will buy (if Mr. Wallet allows) MR2 (drifting :-D). With Celi I will just go for full engine maintenance to bring it to 100% stock specs, plus sporty camshafts, light flywheel, piggyback, custom CAI and exhaust. This will bring me to ~200 hp and still allow to race 1/4 mile in Profi class (n/a 1.6+ litre engines, FWD). If I turboed then I would have to go to Turbo class which currently has some 1000+ hp monsters - no point competing with such things.

Thanks for inspiration.

[kevstir]

a guy on the uk celica-club got 188bhp from his 3s-ge thats with an induction kit cat back exhaust and dastek uni chip all setup on the rolling road, the peak bhp isnt as good as you would hope but if you look at his graphs theres plenty of improvment lower down , 5k theres a 15bhp increase also the increase in torgue below 3k must make it a dream to drive , if he added a decat and got a better cold air feed setup i recon he could see close to the 200bhp

http://www.celica-club.co.uk/cgibin/phpbb2...ghlight=unichip