The 3SGTE Swap, How-to Options

[Defgeph]

*THIS IS FOR INSTRUCTIONAL USE*

READ THIS BEFORE ASKING A QUESTION
90% of the time the answer is here.

Hey guys,
I figured I'd do a write up while I was doing my swap. Later on we can edit everything and have a nice FAQ & how-to for the 3sgte swap.

Ok, I dont know everything about cars. I took on this project to learn and further enjoy the car I love. There will be times where I dont know what a part is or how to explain it, but with everyone's help we'll get through it.

If you guys have anything to add, please feel free to reply. Please do not flame me or post negative remarks about the parts I install, or anything thats involved in this thread. Post your opinions not your attitudes.

First Step: The thought. Should I do it. Well its up to you, use this as a guide to help you along the way.
Its recommended that you have somewhere around 4000 dollars saved for the swap.

Before you ask: Engine or Clip. Get the clip, it will have all the parts you need for the swap. (for the most part). If you purchase only an engine you would have to hunt down so many hard to find parts it would be rediculous.

If you just bought engine, ecu, tranny, wiring harness.

You would be missing: 3rd ECU plug, AFM, ignitor, coil, injector resistor pack, fuel pump resistor, fuel pump relay, turbo pressure sensor, air intake piping, and probably some other stuff.

If you got a clip, you would be missing nothing. Plus, you could sell off a LOT of stuff, and pay for a good portion of your swap.

A swap can take a weekend or many months. It all depends on what you are doing.

It is probably a good idea to replace some old parts while you are at it! All gaskets, water pump, oil pump, belts, hose from hell, clutch, head gasket, distributor cap and rotor, plugs, plug wires, fuel filter, air filter, etc....depends on what you want out of the car. If you want to modify it, add some more.

Second Step : What model do you have ST(like me) or a GT.
IF you have a GT its a little easier for you guys. The 5sfe Tranny bolts right up to the 3sgte engine. Most people will bash the 5s tranny saying it wont hold the power. We have a few guys running the 5s tranny with no problems.
Other options: E-153 MR2 turbo tranny with LSD
1mzfe tranny found on Solaras, Camrys, and ES300s
3sge tranny found on a number of Toyotas

NOTE: The MR2 turbo tranny, and 1MZFE need the ST205 rear mount and bracket. Do not drive around with three mounts. DO NOT have one custom made for you, ORDER the ST205 rear transmission bracket

GT guys unless you dont want to use the 5sfe tranny, move on you dont need this section.

ST guys. You need a new tranny. You most likely know that you need new mounts. I have purchased all four GT mounts. Get them all you need everything. Its better to be safe than sorry.
You cannot use the Alltrac tranny. You cannot use your ST tranny. You would need a GT tranny or one of the trannys listed above.

ST mounts


GT mounts




See the mounts are totally different.



You also need to get a tranny, look above for recomendations. I'm using a JDM 3SGE Tranny. I'll have pics and more detail later on.
you need axles that match the tranny.
Shifter cables yep you need them.
Here is how they break down:
E-153 mr2 turbo tranny = ST205 cables only
GT tranny = GT shifter cables
1mzfe (also known as the E153) Solara, Camry Tranny = ST205 Cables only
3SGE Tranny = GT Cables
[/b]
I have some pictures of cables and the differences

GT & GT4 side by side

GT left, GT4 right

GT top, GT4 bottom

See totally different

Ok Cables, mounts, axles I think we can join the GT guys again.

GT & ST: Clutch. Depending on which tranny you use it will effect which clutch parts you buy.

Lagos wrote:
Clutch:
if using the gt tranny with the 3sgte motor, you will need:
5sfe disk (or a custom made 3sgte disk, with the splines for the 5sfe tranny)
5sfe throwout bearing
5sfe alignment tool
3sgte pressure plate
3sgte flywheel (or just get your stock one resurfaced)

if you are going to use an mr2 turbo tranny, then all you need to do is buy a clutch kit for a 90-93 turbo mr2.

be carefull when buying clutch disks for the 5sfe tranny. a stage 1 disk for the 5sfe is not the same thing as a stage 1 disk for the 3sgte. so if you get something like a stock oem clutch or a ACT street disk, it probably will not hold the power you need to put down.
if you call up a company like Spec or Clutchmasters and tell them about your project, they can make you a custom disk that can hold the power you will make and have the correct spline count that you need.

You all will need a new fuel pump. I am using a walbro supra turbo pump. Most people will say that it whines when operating. People have even dubbed it "WhineBro". Another option is to purchase a OEM Supra turbo pump from toyota. It is silent, and still delivers the fuel the 3sgte needs.

I'm not going to cover after market intercoolers. You can do the swap with the stock set up. The stock Air to Air cooler is not recommened, most people prefer to get an aftermarket. The stock intercooler sits on top of the 3sgte, with leads to heat soak at an idle. Most people Use an front mount intercooler. You can search for it in the forums.
My 3SGTE is the RC version with a water cooled top mount intercooler. I have no need to get a FMIC (front mount intercooler)

[Defgeph]

My Setup
97 celica ST 5spd 179,xxx
ST185 3SGTE RC Swap
USDM GT motor mounts
JDM 3SGE Tranny
JDM 3SGE axles
GT shifter cables
Fidanza Flyweel 10 lbs.
Spec stage 3 clutch
HKS SSQ blow off Valve
Walbro fuel pump
Full 3 inch exhaust
HKS Titanium TI muffler
Lotek Triple Gauge pillar
Autometer Sport Comp boost gauge
Autometer Sport Comp Oil press.
Autometer Sport Comp Water temp
Greddy Profec B Spec II
Apexi Turbo Timer
I'll add what ever I forgot later.
I have parts all over the place so it will take time to get all the pictures. here is what pictures I have right now


My car as it sits now



Walbro Fuel pump


My Down Pipe


My Baby

My HKS Carbon TI muffler 3 inch inlet, 4 3/4 inch outlet

This is what I have pictures of right now. I have parts scattered in three different homes. I'll get pictures of everything dont worry



Right now 5/26/05 I have almost everything for the swap. In the next two weeks my clip will be delivered to my home by JARCO. At that time this thread will be come more technical. I'll try to keep a step by step account of everything. I will also have some videos of a few parts of the swap.
I'll also end all your worries about the motor mounts, I'll clearly lay it out for you with measurements. You DONT have to weld the mounts in. I'm not sure about the wiring yet. so maybe one of you guys might want to do a write up about it. And I'll quote it in later on.

UPDATE:6/7/05 I'm going through the longest week ever. On saturday my clip will be delivered. Spec Stage 3 clutch is on the way, Next week the pictures start.

_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _

Update: 6/14/05 I got my clip over the weekend, and I couldnt be happier.





Ok so this thing is huge make sure you have enough room for the swap.
only thing I can really say right now is, get the clip on some jeck stands and start taking it apart.

Where do I start. Well, I pulled the wiring harness from inside the car out and layed across the top of the engine. I pulled the throttle cable, save it you will need it for your swap. Then I pulled all the other wiring and hoses that connect the engine to the body. Make sure you label everything ! Take pictures if you need to, whatever will help you remember where everything goes. if all goes well you should have somthing that looks like this.



Dont forget to pull coolant hoses, shifter cables,axles, radiator and whatever other small things that may hold the engine in or get in the way.

Raditator

Now before you lift the engine out you still have some things that need to be done.

Like removing the intercooler, just so it doesnt get damaged when you pull the engine.



Then the mounts, a 17mm socket will undo all the mounts. The rear mount will be the hardest and most dangerous. But I will post a way to get around this problem. I hope my idea will work.


After everything is pulled the engine should come out with little trouble.
Next update, I'll have the engine pulled and my parts being installed to the 3sgte

As it sits right now, waiting to be plucked.


-----------------------------------------------------------------

[Defgeph]

So I guess its time for an update.........

The 3s is out and so is the 7a !

With the help a few friends, we managed to get most of the gaskets and seals done on the 3sgte. Do all the maintenance with the engine out it will make your life easier in the long run.

Empty engine bay


Flywheel and clutch install
Fidanza wheel and Spec stage 3 clutch


The down pipe


The 3s and 7a side by side


the mount area I will go into full detail about this part when I get to it.



I think thats it for now, I'll keep this updated. :wiggle:

DEF

[Defgeph]

Inside the two red circles is where you need to drill. The chassis is already marked for the holes that need to be drilled. you need a long 3/8 drill bit for metal.


Sears item #00966062000 its like 12.99

I installed all the other engine mounts then bolted this mount to the engine and then I drilled out the holes. after I bolted the mount down using locktite and nylon nuts.


You're going to have to do some grinding on the passenger side engine mount bracket. you have to grind down the hump thats on this bracket in order for it to fit on the 3sgte.

Below are some examples of what you need to do.




6th gen and 5th gen Crossmembers

See totally different. Use the 6th gen members with the correct mounts


Ok, I think we went over all the steps. Lets drop that engine in.
Make sure your engine harness has been converted properly. install it on the engine before you drop it in.
Start with the driver side mount first, then front and back mounts. Save the Passenger side mount for Last if you have an ST. With all the other mounts bolted up you should be lined up perfect for the two holes you need to drill.







Once you have all the mounts in, start putting it all back together.
By this point you know every nut and bolt on ur car, so it starts to get easier.

in a couple of hours you should be sitting on all fours.
Something like this.


Clean your self up and take it for a spin. Dont forget to break the clutch in.


I have two other threads about my exhaust setup

My New Exhaust
3" Turbo Back Exhaust Refrence Pics


Enjoy,
Defgeph

PS. if I left anything out I'll fill it in later

[Akimbo]

sexy...you make it sound so easy too. What happened to your enkeis btw?

[ILuvMyCelica95]

Jeff

[Defgeph]

sexy...you make it sound so easy too. What happened to your enkeis btw?
[right][snapback]333286[/snapback][/right]

Rubber is too thin.


Thanks guys

[Batman722]

great post guy.

[Yota]

Is the cross member from your ST? Or was that from the clip?

[Defgeph]

Is the cross member from your ST?  Or was that from the clip?
[right][snapback]333381[/snapback][/right]

Hey try reading the how-to next time lol, the answer is in post number 4
Yes I used my ST cross member, the st185 does not fit.

I showed a picture to refrence.

DEF

[Yota]

whoops...i read it wrong. Sorry...

[steve0178]

so you finished it all up huh? sweet thanks for the update. I just bought my front clip so now i get to start the fun

[st202gt]

where did u get the clips from and how much?

[MonsterBOX]

how long did it take u start to finish in total hours working, what bout wiring

This post has been edited by MonsterBOX: Sep 18, 2005 - 1:57 AM

[Defgeph]

how long did it take u start to finish in total hours working, what bout wiring
[right][snapback]335598[/snapback][/right]

2 1/2 months worth of weekends, DGperformance did the wiring.


DEF

[brianforster]

you make it sound so easy

[brianforster]

so wait, did you run a 13.9 with tmic?

[Defgeph]

Yes I did. On 205/40/R17 Falken Zeix 512's

[brianforster]

wow nice... intercoolers do not increase hp but just run your setup cooler right? to allow for more boost? with a decent intercooler setup what kind of stock boost can you run on the 3sgte?

also a question for you since yo useem to be online and i have no one else to ask..

are the power steering lines and ac lines useable from the stock GT stuff? and condensor too.

and whats the diff between the 3sgte rc and normal? im trying to search but the terms are coming up too short

This post has been edited by brianforster: Feb 22, 2006 - 11:13 PM

[Defgeph]

1. Yeah the GT lines will work. I believe you can leave ur 5sfe AC pump and bolt it to the 3SGTE, then just wire it up.

2. The differences are the ST185 uses air to cool the intercooler, it sits above the engine soaking in all the heat. It's a horrible design. Most people run an aftermarket front mount.

The ST185RC is water cooled, work very well. It gets so cold the intake manifold becomes cool as well(idling). I run anywhere from 12 to 15 psi, thats where the 3sgte comes alive.

Hope this helps