Looking for some modification guideance. Options

[Bluelightning]

Hello everyone,

I'm a newb here so, I apologize if I ask any stupid questions up front.

My wife and I just recntly purchesed her a Bone Stock 1996 AT200 5-speed to use as a daily driver in place of the 2003 Dodge Durango she was driving. Fuel costs where getting to much for us, so we needed something a bit more economical, plus she wanted something fun to drive.

We where supprised at how well the car responds with only 108 HP. Now we are looking at our options for increasing that.

I have been doing a bit of research here on the site and understand that the 3S-GTE swap is the hands down prefered option for all out power, but I also want to keep an eye on overall cost of ownership as well. IE Mantinece cost, and fuel costs after modification. I need to keep these costs reasonable for a daily driver.

What I am looking for is something that will fit the following requirements post modification.

1: Run well on Regular Unleaded gas.
2: Pass Texas emissions testing
3: I can get replacement parts, and normal maintenance items at a reasonable cost.

My understanding is this pretry much rules out a JDM engine swap.

What about a swap for a 5S-FE from a USDM GT? Is this a reasonable option? Will it meet my requirements above?

Would I just be better off sticking with my 7A-FE and working with it?

I would not be opposed to a turbo kit for the existing engine, but I belive that would require me to run a higher grade of gas. Is that correct?

If that is the case what performance mods would be recommended for a NA 7A-FE to get a few more HP out of it? Would I be pretty much limited to an intake upgrade, and exhaust upgrades? Would that net me much HP gain on the 7A-FE?

Thanks in advance for any recommendations you can make.


This post has been edited by Bluelightning: Sep 23, 2005 - 10:24 AM

[95CelicaST]

Swapping a 5S-FE wouldn't be a great option. It requires different engine mounts, as well as wiring. It would cost you almost as much as a 3S-GTE swap, and you would only get 130HP. As far as a turbo goes, I would assume that any turbo car needs to be ran on premium and above. If you decide to swap you can always go with a 4A-GE or 4A-GZE, which I believe use the same engine mounts as the ST.

Basically you are stuck to intake/exhaust mods (Which I have on my ST). If you are going to modify your intake Do Not get a short-ram. They might actually hinder performance, as they would be sucking in hot air. I have a Cold Air Intake on mine, which I'm not sure where the previous owner got it, but I know there are some Intercooler-style intakes for the ST on Ebay. If you are lucky, going downhill with a tailwind, you might be able to hit 115HP with an intake and exhaust, but basically, there is no real way to make a 7A go fast... at all... unless you are Nik and you can pour 4 grand into a turbo kit....

Welcome to the site, the people are nice and helpful with problems. Some adivce though.. People get... frazzled.. when someone posts a question that could have easily been solved with the Search Option. So be sure to research a question if you aren't sure if it has been brought up yet.

[blu94gt]

I think the biggest question comes to how much of a budget do you have to spend to make this car faster? The 3sgte swap is definitely the preferred method (and one of the easier ones) to get a lot of power. Swapping a 5sfe will meet your requirements of gas, emissions, and maintenance but will only get you to 130-135 HP.

Just about anything you do to the 7afe like a turbo, new pistons/head etc would probably require you to run a higher grade fuel. And someone correct me if I'm wrong but don't the 3sge and 3sgte require premium?

[Bluelightning]

Yeah that is pretty much what I was expecting. I beleive that I read somehwre that all JDM engines require mid grade at a minimum, but really need premium to run right just because that is what is available in Japan. I also being that any type of forced induction also requires a higher grade fuel as well. That is why I was interested in the 5S-FE.

Does anyone know if the 4A-GE, and 4A-GZE require higher grade fuels as well?

Thanks again for the info everyone.

[95CelicaST]

The GZE probably does, because its supercharged, but the 4A-GE Doesn't. Coomer has one in his Celica I believe.

[Coomer]

The 20V 4A-GE runs on approximately 92 octane fuel. You could retard the timing and run regular gas and the car would be slower, but then there's not much point to the swap, since it only gets power up high anyway and to do that it dumps a ton of fuel through the 295cc injectors.

[Bluelightning]

OK. it looks like I have a fairly clear picture now.. It sounds like I either need to throw all my reservations out the windows and go all out for the 3S-GTE, or just go with minor mods for the 7A-FE and be happy with what I can get out of it.

Thank you everyone for you time. It is greatly appreciated.

[Coomer]

OK.  it looks like I have a fairly clear picture now..  It sounds like I either need to throw all my reservations out the windows and go all out for the 3S-GTE, or just go with minor mods for the 7A-FE and be happy with what I can get out of it.

Thank you everyone for you time.  It is greatly appreciated.
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Don't get me wrong...the 20V 4A-GE is a sweet engine! And I can get 30+ MPG if I drive slow, but it does require premium gas and high RPM driving to get the most out of the engine. It's also a cheaper swap than the 3S-GTE and requires less maintenance being N/A.

[nik]

but basically, there is no real way to make a 7A go fast... at all... unless you are Nik and you can pour 4 grand into a turbo kit....
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my old turbo project only cost me $1500 for a basic turbo kit got good results on small budget 170 whp and 180 torque at 9.5 psi or drop it down to 5-6 psi and still get 140-150 whp and good torque

now if you want a 7age its about the same money as a 4ag swap + a few hundred more but more power or you can go all out a fully build a 7AGTE which i'm in the process of finishing hopefully soon

OK.  it looks like I have a fairly clear picture now..  It sounds like I either need to throw all my reservations out the windows and go all out for the 3S-GTE, or just go with minor mods for the 7A-FE and be happy with what I can get out of it.

Thank you everyone for you time.  It is greatly appreciated.
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or the middle and just put a turbo on with 6-7 psi and have close to or the same power as the 3sgte stock for less it all depends on you go look at my how to tubro your 7afe might give you an idea

just to let you know i started off with bolt ons exhaust intake plugs wires etc
then went low budget turbo and now i went full blown rebuild hybraid built motor big turbo standalone etc anything is possible

[Galcobar]

Has anyone considered the 3SGE?

It's the mid-grade engine in Japanese and well, basically everywhere but North America. Used in ST202, 203 chasses (anybody know if that's the correct plural form of chassis? I'm assuming it acts like crisis/crises). 2.0L, so it's not a massive fuel burner, NA so it's easier to maintain, but with the greater displacement it can provide more low-end power than a 4AGE. Octance numbers I'm not clear on however.

For this, you'd want a clip, since you'd encounter most of the same problems with a 3SGE as you would with a 3SGTE, minus the turbo and intercooler.

Unless Texas requires visual inspections, a Japanese engine can pass -- Japanese standards are as high or higher, they just don't use exhaust gas recirculation as one of the methods.

[MsButterKup23]

EDIT: Ooops I forgot I was loged on with my wife's account. I guess that is what I get for using her computer.

Galcobar;

Thanks for the info. Do you or anyone else for that matter know for saure if the JDM engines require higher grade gas? I thought I read somewhere that they did, but I may be mistaken.

Thanks again everyone for all of the input.



This post has been edited by MsButterKup23: Sep 24, 2005 - 8:35 PM