Boost on stock internals, looking for your toughts Options

[frosty]

Alright, I do understand that if you turbocharge anything it is wise to beef up the internals.(duh)

The reson for my post is to read your thoughts of a magazine article I read in this months HCI. The article stated that they turbocharged a b16 motor with stock internals. After pushing around 300 ponies the piston rods broke (I believe that was it, it's been a while since I read it, but I'm about 95% sure that was it) Anyways, they changed them out with stronger ones and increased the boost to 24 psi. producing a little over 500 hp. The reason they did this article was to show that with proper tuning stock internals can hold their own.

Now if this was me, I would feel more comfortable with stronger internals than stock ones, but it still makes me ponder the thought of (with proper tuning) how much boost our motors could hold with stock internals.

(please undertand that if I do add a turbo to my motor I do plan on improving the inside of the beast and not try to be smooth and run only on the stock stuff.)

[RUNNIN-LOW]

yes you are right with proper tuning your stock motor can hold its own power. but the thing is if you do turbo charge you engine it kills the life span of your ring, pistons, and rods it basicly wears everything down...and if you do decide to like take off you turbo(which after turbo you wont want to go back to n/a)your cars power drops. but yeah WITH proper tunning your internals can hold the turbo.

[Aaagogo]

u will be better off in terms performance gain vs money spent if u are thinking of forging the 5sfe, i would suggest doing a 3sgte swap if u want to out the money into boosting the internals.

the stock 5sfe can hold the stock boost of the ct26 with proper tunning.

at the end of the day, the 5sfe was never designed for power/performance.

do a search and you will find that many ppl advises spending that money on a swap rather than forging.

[frosty]

u will be better off in terms performance gain vs money spent if u are thinking of forging the 5sfe, i would suggest doing a 3sgte swap if u want to out the money into boosting the internals.

the stock 5sfe can hold the stock boost of the ct26 with proper tunning.

at the end of the day, the 5sfe was never designed for power/performance.

do a search and you will find that many ppl advises spending that money on a swap rather than forging.
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I've already done my searching, and if I were to turbo the 5s-fe it wouldn't be for high hp. I now that the 5s-fe wasn't meant to produce extremes in hp.

My only question (which I guess I wasn't clear on) is could our motors produce that 500 hp like the b16 with only a good turbo setup and lots of hours tuning.

It's only a hypothetical question, not one for actual usage.

My bad for not being clear.

[lagos]

My only question (which I guess I wasn't clear on) is could our motors produce that 500 hp like the b16 with only a good turbo setup and lots of hours tuning.

NO, and if it did, you could no longer call it a 5sfe because of all the $$$ you had to put into it.

the other thing you have to remember is, just because that honda pull 500hp on a dyno and everything seemed ok, dosnt mean the car is still running to this day. the motor could have went a day after the article was printed.

if you are going to buy all the turbo parts, and then buy internals, and spend the money to have someone upgrade and rebuild your motor, then youll end up spending way more then you would with a tipical 3s swap. not to mention that you will always be trying to fight your stock ecu to try to tune the car right, on the 5sfe.

[Aaagogo]

yupe, well said, it has to be street worthy.

the other thing you have to remember is, just because that honda pull 500hp on a dyno and everything seemed ok, dosnt mean the car is still running to this day. the motor could have went a day after the article was printed.

[celiracer]

So really if your wanting a fast car do the 3s swap, witch already gives you more power, then if you want more turbo that, and do internals?

[lagos]

So really if your wanting a fast car do the 3s swap, witch already gives you more power, then if you want more turbo that, and do internals?
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huh? the 3sgte is aready factory turboed. you dont need to upgrade anything inside it. if you want even more power later on, you can just upgrade your turbo.

[OOBE]

You can only do so much tuning for that engine to run safe like it's supposed to, but you definately cannot overcome the strength limit of the internals. It'll break no matter how much tuning you do to it. Some engines, even economy ones, are stronger than others. The Mitsubishi 4G93 (Mirage LS 1.8) can hold over 300 WHP on stock internals for a long time without failing. The tranny can hold over 400 WHP without failing...for an econo-box, that is impressive. The Mazda Protege engines and trannies are also extremely strong so people just turbocharge them and don't worry about internals failing. I have seen this on my own experience, not something somebody told me to. My friend has a '97 Mirage and never has replaced the tranny or done any bottom or headwork to it. He has been pushing over 400 WHP for years with just rods, pistons and hardware...plus an EMS to tune it right. Unfortunately, our Celica engines (7A-FE and 5S-FE) were not blessed like those other econo-engines.

[creis]

Dont forget the b16 is a Racing Motor, the 5sfe is an economy motor, and no it will not hold 500 hp, probilbly not even after massive internal and block work, wile the b16 is pretty well known for holdling that power and still running. and yeah the cost of building up a 5sfe to a race worth hp is higher then the cost of swaping a 3sgte.

For the cost of making a 5sfe push 500 hp you might as well just swap in a b16 and turbo charge it.

This post has been edited by creis: Oct 21, 2005 - 7:34 AM

[frosty]

the other thing you have to remember is, just because that honda pull 500hp on a dyno and everything seemed ok, dosnt mean the car is still running to this day. the motor could have went a day after the article was printed.

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This is true. If I owned the magazine and printed this article and then the motor blew up after, I would be kinda ashamed. I don't think I would feel safe if it was used in daily driving.

our Celica engines (7A-FE and 5S-FE) were not blessed like those other econo-engines.
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Sad but yet true I guess...

Dont forget the b16 is a Racing Motor, the 5sfe is an economy motor, and no it will not hold 500 hp, probilbly not even after massive internal and block work, wile the b16 is pretty well known for holdling that power and still running. and yeah the cost of building up a 5sfe to a race worth hp is higher then the cost of swaping a 3sgte.
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Yeah, this type of thing sucks for all 5s-fe/7a-fe owners. It would be nice if our internals were up to that kind of quality though.

I only wished that these magazines would show more on toyotas than what they do and the engines.

[Punch]

Dont forget the b16 is a Racing Motor, the 5sfe is an economy motor, and no it will not hold 500 hp, probilbly not even after massive internal and block work, wile the b16 is pretty well known for holdling that power and still running. and yeah the cost of building up a 5sfe to a race worth hp is higher then the cost of swaping a 3sgte.

For the cost of making a 5sfe push 500 hp you might as well just swap in a b16 and turbo charge it.
[right][snapback]347329[/snapback][/right]

well sezed a 3sge or gte can hold big power but a 5sfe ....
If you love it that much you can get in the ballpark of 300hp. but thats $$$$