Difference between T3 60 and Super 60, TURBO Psssssshhhhhh Options

[JoKeRkId613]

Eyo, wutup my peoples? Lol. Sry, I'm a little hyper. But yeah, I'm about to buy a T3 turbo. I'm undecided between the 60 trim and Super 60. Super 60 sounds cooler and very expensive... So I want to know what the difference between those two are. THANKS.

[Rjb23]

60 trim is going to be to big for 7a it will take a year to spool.

[JoKeRkId613]

yea rite. romas had it on his 7a... lol. nik recommended it. i just didnt want to go with a t3 t4. im getting around to learning those compressor maps so i can see what i need to achieve the goal i want from my 7a. the ultimate goal would be around 300-320hp. but im happy with 200, which i think is very do-able just with the turbo and stock internals. whats the best trim on the t3? a want the super 60 but wanted to know wut the differendces were. thanks.

[Dr_Tweak]

60 trim is going to be to big for 7a it will take a year to spool.

Not correct, the super 60 is the perfect size for a 1.8 turbo. Maybe you're thinking 60-1, that would be WAYYY too big.

The difference is the size, the super 60 is a little bigger, and it's my recommendation for a 1.8.

-Doc

[playr158]

go to the FAQ section and the the "7afe compressor maps"
thread i wrote i have the maps done for the 7afe you can learn and see the difference there if you need more help send me an IM

[Akimbo]

why do you use 93 octane gas

[playr158]

prevent detonation from early ignition of the fuel/air mix

[celicaST]

prevent detonation from early ignition of the fuel/air mix

i think akimbo was asking why joker uses 93 octane in his st as it says in his profile, as it is NA still.

[JoKeRkId613]

why do you use 93 octane gas

Cuz I feel like it. Lol. J/K. If I'm not mistaken, my engine was meant to be feed 87 octane and run perfectly fine, but I usually got a couple extra bucks and put in premium. It does "feel" like it runs better tho. Can't really explain that feeling but trust me.

[dstrbcelica]

why do you use 93 octane gas

Cuz I feel like it. Lol. J/K. If I'm not mistaken, my engine was meant to be feed 87 octane and run perfectly fine, but I usually got a couple extra bucks and put in premium. It does "feel" like it runs better tho. Can't really explain that feeling but trust me.

it doesn't run any better. you're just wasting your money.

-dstrb

[JoKeRkId613]

^it does feel better, if you want to come here and drive it then go ahead.

[playr158]

lets stay on track and not argue about what octane people are running it's their money their choice let it be

BACK TO TURBO TALK

the T3 super 60 turbo will be just a hair too big for a celica on a non modified block, without headwork and creating better flow and power from the start
here is a T3 super 60 chart that i made (bottom line = 8psi middle = 10psi top = 15psi)


like i said before unless your goin to go work on the internals and modify the engine a lot
a T3 50 trim is THE BEST size for you
as shown here

[JoKeRkId613]

cool. so i guess i'll go with the 50 for now and when this piece of sh!t blows and i have my new 7a with upgraded internals, i'll go for the super 60. how much hp do you think the 50 trim can handle? look, honestly, sorry for all the questions but i'm trying to beat my friends d16 civic si. he has a turbo, i think its t25 or 28. i duno, the ones on the gs-t eclipses... anyway, i wanna woop his ass cuz he always says honda this honda that and toyota sucks. so yea... and hes stick, im auto. but i think i can still take him with a proper setup. everything tuned correctly...

[playr158]

basically you can't gauge horsepower by the turbo...you'll learn that very quickly

it has to do with your FULL setup

as in how big is your exhaust (2.5" is fine)
what kind of intercooler are you running?
what size intercooler piping are you running (2" is fine)
what injectors are you using?
what is your tunning system?
what manifold are you running..log or tubular?
what spark plugs?
what oil?
what boost are you running?
what octane gas are you running?


i mean yes some of that is nitty gritty but it makes a difference
i'd say around 12psi you should be making around 180-200whp with a good tune

also if you want to do a setup...don't just listen to us go learn on your own with RESEARCH

if you really want to turbo then go buy the book..MAXIMUM BOOST
you can learn alot from there

[JoKeRkId613]

The turbo is going to be a t3 50 trim.
bov is going to be hks ssqv or greddy rs
how big is your exhaust(2.5" is fine)?For now, it's stock, but it will be 2.5" all the way with no cats or anything and some muffler(still haven't decided that yet)
what kind of intercooler are you running?I was thinking some eBay IC that'll have the proper dimensions to fit behind the bumper.
what size intercooler piping are you running(2" is fine)?I was planning on using 2.5" since I can use some of the pipes from my current CAI.
what injectors are you using?For now, stock, but when I decide to run higher boost, I'll upgrade that and the fuel pump(Walbro pump and RX-7 460cc inj)
what is your tunning system?Working on getting the Apexi SAFC-2
what manifold are you running..log or tubular?Log-style
what spark plugs?Bosch Platinum+4
what oil?full-synthetic
what boost are you running?daily, im planning on using 5-6psi
what octane gas are you running?93 octane.

i'll look into getting that book. o, nice sig btw. lol.

This post has been edited by JoKeRkId613: Dec 4, 2005 - 10:21 PM

[playr158]

The turbo is going to be a t3 50 trim.
-----good
bov is going to be hks ssqv or greddy rs
-----good
how big is your exhaust(2.5" is fine)?For now, it's stock, but it will be 2.5" all the way with no cats or
anything and some muffler(still haven't decided that yet)
-----good plan but get a high flow cat....cat will not hurt performance and its good to protect the enviroment do your part don't be part of the reason why people don't like import tuners..keep the emission down!
what kind of intercooler are you running?I was thinking some eBay IC that'll have the proper dimensions to fit behind the bumper.
-----no ebay isn't that great...go to www.johnnyracecar.com they have good sizes and affordable prices!
what size intercooler piping are you running(2" is fine)?I was planning on using 2.5" since I can use some of the pipes from my current CAI.
-----i wouldn't suggest this as 2.5" is too big for your setup and CAI piping is NOT the kind i would choose for IC pipe, its too thin and can break from the pressures
what injectors are you using?For now, stock, but when I decide to run higher boost, I'll upgrade that and the fuel pump(Walbro pump and RX-7 460cc inj)
-----in order to turbo you MUST get a 255lph fuel pump it is a must to have enough fuel stock wont cut it and ifor injectors i'd suggest a nice set from RC engineering
what is your tunning system?Working on getting the Apexi SAFC-2
-----thats nice, also invest in a decent wideband o2 sensor
what manifold are you running..log or tubular?Log-style
-----jgstools.com/turbo is the place?
what spark plugs?Bosch Platinum+4
-----VERY VERY BAD IDEA these don't run well in our cars and not for turbo applications...go for a NGK R plug iridum would be a good idea...remember 1 step colder for every 50hp over stock
what oil?full-synthetic
-----woot!

what boost are you running?daily, im planning on using 5-6psi
what octane gas are you running?93 octane.

This post has been edited by playr158: Dec 4, 2005 - 10:54 PM

[Dr_Tweak]

playr158, I'm going to have to argue with you on that. Here are my calculations, feel free to point out any errors.

1.8 liters x 61.02 = 109.8 cubic inches. (playr158, your calculations seem to be based on an engine with about 77 cubic inches, or about 1.3 liters???)

109.8 x 6500 (max RPM) x .5 (4 stroke engine) x .90 (approx. VE) / 1728 = 185.8 CFM

If he's running about 7.5 psi (he actually wants to run 6), then that's a pressure ratio of 1.5, 15 psi being about 2.0.

185 x 1.5 = 278 cfm at 7.5 psi
185 x 2.0 = 371 cfm at 15 psi

At sea level and 85* (less than ideal conditions), the weight of a cubic foot of air is .073 pounds.

278 cfm x .073 = 20 lbs
371 cfm x .073 = 27 lbs

Now here are the compressor maps. (Hand drawn, bear with me) The top line is 15 psi and the bottom line is 7.5:



As you can see here, with the T3-50, the turbo will give good efficiency in the lower/mid range, but nearly runs right off the map at max RPM, right when the need the coolest air most!!!



The 60 series runs a little better, still giving preference to the mid range.



Lastly the Super 60, which is giving it's highest efficiency right where you want it, in the mid/high range right where the most POWER is being made, and where cooler air is MOST important! And playr158, since you mentioned Maximum Boost, remember what Corky Bell says, "I'll go for the high side EVERY TIME!".

The best choice then, for a 1.8 that revs to 6500 rpm, is the T3 Super 60.

Other notes, playr158 is right on with the intercooler piping, 2 inch is plenty for that setup. Too big is bad. Also, don't ever use Iridium plugs in turbo or N20 applications, the tip is too small and can't conduct the added heat away easily enough, causing a preignition point. Use single electrode platinum or copper plugs. Yes, I just said copper, they are a great choice for turbo and N20 and are cheap to replace.

Class Dismissed!

This post has been edited by Dr_Tweak: Dec 5, 2005 - 12:06 AM

[playr158]

iridums will run fine i havn't heard any issues regarding them but i'll take your word on it....personally i'm running NGK R copper plugs in my turbo car..they don't last that long but worth the $

for my calculations refer to this write up
http://www.6gc.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=28068

i'm not sure where you got your equation from for CFM
but i believe the one stated on my referance page is the one from by corky bell...

but i can say that in referance to my jetta motor (1.8L as well)
we run T3s60 turbos and see around 300 horsepower
and can use a GT28rs turbo (disco potato) and see near and over 400

[Dr_Tweak]

That CFM formula is totally wrong. You can't use liters, you have to use cubic inches, and you didn't multiply by .5 for a 4-stroke engine, among other things.

Think about it. CFM means Cubic FEET per Minute. You can't calculate feet from liters unless you convert the numbers first. I see that you're dividing by 5660, that must be to try to convert the numbers to cubic feet, but it isn't working. In theory you could do that though... I'll have to check on it.

Okay cool, you can do that, by multiplying the number by .0353! (Google says, "1 liters = 0.0353146667 cubic feet") But you still need to multiply by .5. Here's another formula: (All this really does is save you one calculation).

1.8 liters x 6500 (max RPM) x .5 (4 stroke engine) x .90 (approx. VE) x 0.0353 = 185.8 CFM

Everything from here on is the same

If he's running about 7.5 psi (he actually wants to run 6), then that's a pressure ratio of 1.5, 15 psi being about 2.0.

185 x 1.5 = 278 cfm at 7.5 psi
185 x 2.0 = 371 cfm at 15 psi

At sea level and 85* (less than ideal conditions), the weight of a cubic foot of air is .073 pounds.

278 cfm x .073 = 20 lbs
371 cfm x .073 = 27 lbs

playr158, you better change that tech file!!!

This post has been edited by Dr_Tweak: Dec 5, 2005 - 1:20 AM

[JoKeRkId613]

lol. j/k.