DIY ITBs, Do It Yourself Individual Throttlebodies! With pics! Options

[Pivot]

This thread will be an ongoing How-to article on installing Individual Throttlebodies from a 2004 Yamaha R6 onto a 7afe(ae102).

The first few installments will be purely mechanical, and will assess designing a bracket, figuring out how modify the fuel system on the engine, and fabbing up a plenum and with spots for most sensors(haven't decided on the EGR system yet). Towards spring, I will be installing the entire setup and fine tuning it.

This really is a grassroots mod, and i don't believe it should cost much more than $200 if you know where to look for parts and how to do basic welding. I bought my ITB's off ebay for $20, so the stuff is out there.

Any comments or suggestions can be posted at anytime, however please make sure they are relevant to this thread. Thanks and enjoy.

*pics will be up soon of the ITBs

[Kwanza26]

The first few installments will be purely mechanical, and will assess designing a bracket, figuring out how modify the fuel system on the engine, and fabbing up a plenum and with spots for most sensors(haven't decided on the EGR system yet). Towards spring, I will be installing the entire setup and fine tuning it.

Heheheh... you said ass...

good luck with it. Hope it doesn't turn out the same as the last guy.

[Pivot]

Yeah, i wasn't sure when i was typing it, but according to google and dictionary.com it's correct. Anyways, i heard some stuff about another guy that tried to do this here, but i haven't looked through the archives about it yet. I'll look it up when i have some free time.

[Kwanza26]

Yeah, i wasn't sure when i was typing it, but according to google and dictionary.com it's correct. Anyways, i heard some stuff about another guy that tried to do this here, but i haven't looked through the archives about it yet. I'll look it up when i have some free time.

It has been deleted. The approach to ITBs should be considered a experiment more than a performance modification, based solely on the design of the engines in question (7AFE). ITBs are design for top-end flow are found on engines with top-end power at high rpms... so I personally feel it's redundant to put in a practical n/a form on a 7AFE or 5SFE, both of which generate power through high intake velocity... not neccesarily big flow. At least in the 7AFE's case... there *might* be light at the end of the tunnel because it has at least a modest rod/stroke ratio... but the last guy, as mentioned, was doing or did (claimed to) on a 5SFE, which has limitations when it comes to making n/a power. Just know this about that topic... he claimed it was GREAT, then he sold it with ZERO proven results, ZERO technical info to support his claim, ZERO pictures showing a successful build, ZERO anything besides the barest of estimates regarding the install and tuning process. I've never ever seen anyone custom tune ITBs with a piggyback fuel controller as well as that guy claimed. Hehehe... but truth be told... I personally warned him from day ONE and then doubted him during his reports on the process. Likewise... I am forewarning you now. Good luck.

You spelled assess correctly... i was just being dumb... =P

This post has been edited by Kwanza26: Dec 19, 2005 - 11:13 PM

[jayi12-15psi]

that other guy can go straight to hell... lol

[dlx742]

uh oh. its another new guy with some ITB's.

[doGGy]

Good luck with this ITB setup... Had some 4AG ITB's sitting at home, was going to install them on 7A, till i got the info as Kwanza said.... And till i saw all the hastle needed to install them.... After this - i sold them.
The guys who bought them (local Performance shop) put these on Toyota Yaris 1.4 engine, with runs in a Yaris Cup race, and this thing was ab east with them, atleast it sounded like one

[Hanyo]

Kwanza26-

I know how you dont like to voice your idea's about engines because some people will take it as a fact without further research. But, what is your take with ITB on a force induction setup?

[Kwanza26]

Kwanza26-

I know how you dont like to voice your idea's about engines because some people will take it as a fact without further research. But, what is your take with ITB on a force induction setup?

I did emphasize "n/a" with regard to the 5SFE and 7AFE. Forced induction changes the game... but top-end flow is still limited by the turbo. In other words... depends on the turbo.

[recneps]

im curious on how you plan on tuning, are you going to run a map from a blacktop 4age?

i was working on osme ITBs for the 7th gen using some 750s. but ran into problems rewiring the TPS and realized that the PFC dosnt support MAP capabilities. i was gonna custom install a aem EMS but decided it was going to cost more than i wanted to spend.

if this project goes well i might pick mine back up.

[Pivot]

I think i've researched it enough to make a competent design. My ultimate goal isn't exactly horsepower, but more or less a smooth flat torque band.

I'm using 38mm ITBs with long stacks to improve intake velocity and still maintain a good throttle response. I will be mounting them about 90mm from the head to keep response good, and use long tapered stacks to increase velocity. The plenum will be a box type, about 3 liters in capacity if i can shape it right. The shape i *want* would be a trapezoidal with the small end facing the engine. The stacks will lead in about another few inches inside the box. 38mm for the ITBs is a decent size for the oversquare 1.8l, it's not oversized for my aspirations. My hp predictions are relatively mild, only about 5hp max gain(on a 97 7afe). I have an automatic also, so i don't expect to see anything drastic. A 5800rpm redline isn't very inspiring on a 4 cylinder these days.

Kwanza used a good choice of words, this is more of a Test bed than an actual performance mod. My cousin in Canada is building a 3sge in an 89 camry, and if this works good enough for me, i'll try to build him a set. I also chose Yamaha as opposed to Suzuki or Honda in hopes that some sensors might be shared or have a same fitting, but i still have to cross reference. Kinda doubtful, but i may be suprised.

As for tuning, I'll be using a wideband to tune each cylinder. My goal is to buy a spare 7afe exhaust mani, and tap each runner for an o2 sensor. I'll just use one WB sensor and plug the other three runners while testing whichever cylinder. Since the Yamaha ITB's have various spots for tuning the amount of air entering from each TB(and it's mechanical), it'll take some time but it should be worth it. Remember, with ITBs we're able to tune each cylinder independently, so while the ecu gives a general direction to the injectors to fire at like 80%, the amount of air entering each cylinder can be tweaked regardless. I'll be using the stock maf(seems like a waste of time then, right?), but this is just a test. I'll also be using the stock injectors, just have them flow tested and maybe blueprinted.


The reason i'm choosing this path of tuning is because i recently acquired a brand new wideband controller. It's the Pivot Multiple Data Logger. Very "jdm" and Very discontinued. Ebay is the greatest, i got it for about $200 with WB o2 included. Anyways, the datalogger is able to display AF ratio, Injector pulse width, and some other Airflow related readings. Also has a tach... something my car doesn't have : )

I can understand the skepticism some of you guys might have, a few bad experiences regarding other members might put you in that state of mind. But I'm glad to hear some of you guys support me. Thanks.

[nik]

i have a spare 7afe block so if you need another intake or exhaust just pm me and good luck

[recneps]

from you plans so far i see nothing but a horrible power loss and a headache. your simply reducing intake velocity and reducing torque. and im sorry to say but your research is simply not there.


The 7afe head no where near enough to even use ITBs let alone the cam.

i forsee a loss in power unless you have a motor built to flow enough and a larger cam.

Itbs are not a way for creating a nice flat torque band even with a large plenum. they will only create a peaky power band. and a problem with your tuning is that putting a o2 sensor in each runner is going to restrict your exhaust flow and as soon as you put a fre flowwing header on there you are going to run a lot leaner then with an o2 sensor in each runner.

if your looking for a nice flat torque curve at a low rpm you should look into designing a intake manifold that is simple 4 runners connected to a TB, maybe a small 1/3l plenum. much like a 4-1 header design.

[95CelicaST]

Had some 4AG ITB's sitting at home, was going to install them on 7A, till i got the info as Kwanza said.... And till i saw all the hastle needed to install them.... After this - i sold them.

I am getting a silvertop that has ITB's not installed.. Is that going to be a hassle for me to install them correctly? Or will they go on just fine?

[/Thread hijack]

This post has been edited by 95CelicaST: Dec 20, 2005 - 12:48 PM

[Pivot]

Like i said before, the goal isn't hp. ITBs are mostly used on peaky engines since they are usually oversized for the general application. My major point is that i'm using ITB's that will flow just a little more than stock manifold runners and that's it. They are not that large in size, and actually may be too small to make significant power gains. The stacks will act as the long runners, from the TBs and into the plenum. Nothing is oversized for this application, and i'm not seeeking any sort of gains related to top end. It's more like i'm building this intake system to top out at 6000rpm.

I'm sure we can all agree the 7afe manifold can be better tuned to produce results, well i'm just trying to do that but keep a nice crisp throttle response.

As for the tuning, the o2 sensor will be mounted a closer to the collector than the head. I've realized that flow will be a problem if it's too close to the head, but i don't have a spare mani to figure out where i can mount them without restricting too much flow. I also don't plan on putting on a header. This is just a rolling test bed for the intake system. Afterwards, i'll probably scrap it(or give it away) and move onto the 1zzfe i have. This is more of a learning experience for me and to test what has not been rarely done.

This car is just a true daily driver, this intake system is just a test. It's not meant to be a performance mod per say, but to atleast help me(and perhaps some other) to understand things a bit better.

[playr158]

yo i'll drop you a spare intake and exhaust manifold if you need them cause i have 2 motors

[macavely]

hmmm now how do i say this........ ok i think i got it.... PICTURES Please