Apexi S-AFC II gain?, SS-1 bhp gains advice and recommandations. Options

[Nigel]

hi once again
Ok seems like i have a SS-1

first question

What BHP would i gain from a Apexi S-AFC II??

Also with out massive mod, turbo, nos or supercharging it what can i do to gain more bhp. Im only after 20-50bhp more.
Thanks

I have read other topics about this engine. Does seen like a hard one to make faster without a serous mod.

[shin]

well if you don't have these, CAI, headers, exhaust should gain you like maybe 10 -15max... dunno how much the safc2 will gain though.

[soven]

Will be interesting to see the outcome. I gave up hope on the ss1 when it came to performance because if I wanted, I could sell my ss1 and go get a ss2 which will give me the 40extra HP .

[lagos]

you wont gain anything from an safc on a stock motor. all it does is add or take away fuel . so the best thing you could do is maybe lean it out a little at the top to gain a little bit of power, but it wouldnt be a safe thing to do and any gains would be too small to notice

[Bigmeanbulldog55]

you wont gain anything from an safc on a stock motor. all it does is add or take away fuel . so the best thing you could do is maybe lean it out a little at the top to gain a little bit of power, but it wouldnt be a safe thing to do and any gains would be too small to notice

What about on a motor with CAI, Headers, and Exhaust? Would I see maybe a 10hp gain? I'm looking at safc2 as my next mod, as long as I can find a place to tune it. I think it will be my last engine mod till a 3s.
By the way, why is this topic in forced induction?

[Nigel]

By the way, why is this topic in forced induction?

It says engine/Transmission i think its to do with the engine.

[Bigmeanbulldog55]

bump. I'm really wondering what kind of gain to expect with adding SAFC2 to my car.

[lagos]

honestly, it wont do much and might be unsafe to use.

its one of those things that you only need if you have some type of forced induction and larger injectors and you need a way to control them .

[presure2]

honestly, it wont do much and might be unsafe to use.

its one of those things that you only need if you have some type of forced induction and larger injectors and you need a way to control them .

this is totally untrue.
with a GOOD tuner, you'll prolly see about an 8-10WHP gain, totally safley.

[lagos]

honestly, it wont do much and might be unsafe to use.

its one of those things that you only need if you have some type of forced induction and larger injectors and you need a way to control them .

this is totally untrue.
with a GOOD tuner, you'll prolly see about an 8-10WHP gain, totally safley.

yeah i dont know... im a firm believer that if toytoa could safely pick up 10hp with just a different tune, then they would have done it from the factory because higher hp specs sell cars.

the only way i could see a stock na motor pick up some hp would be by leaning out some of the fuel up top, but then you have to wonder why its so ritch up there in the 1st place.

[presure2]

yeah i dont know... im a firm believer that if toytoa could safely pick up 10hp with just a different tune, then they would have done it from the factory because higher hp specs sell cars.

well by that standard, why didnt toyota send the 3s out with a 3" DP and exhaust art? we know for a FACT it makes more HP...lol



This post has been edited by presure2: Dec 9, 2005 - 8:28 PM

[Bigmeanbulldog55]

I know cars now a days have better systems and it's harder to pick up hp, but my car was made in 93, it's a 94 model. They didn't have the tecnology then they do now.

[lagos]

I know cars now a days have better systems and it's harder to pick up hp, but my car was made in 93, it's a 94 model. They didn't have the tecnology then they do now.

all celicas, built through 93-99 have pretty much the same technology behind them. the only major change was the move to obd2 in 96.

in my point of view, toyota did all they could with the NA celica motors. there are always balances that their engineers try to strike. like you have to make horsepower, while keeping the car reliable, emissions complient, and a nice and quiet exhaust to keep the average customer happy. you can somtimes get a little more power with a differnte exhaust, intake, etc... but for the most parts, these little 4cyl motors are doing the best they can already .

i think the reason we saw larger gains in older cars is because they were ran by carbs and were mostly v6 and v8s. you cant turn a carb as well as todays computer controled fuel injection, so chances are there was some power that could be gained from a better tune, or a bolt on part.

[presure2]

again art...going by your thoughts,
jim stansson would never had made 147whp with the little 5sfe, with simply cams, and a good tune.
there is ALWAYS room for improvment, thats why we mod our cars art. there is no way toyota is gonna hang itself out there, and run any engine from the factory anywhere close to the edge.
there is LOTS of room in any toyota or ANY manufacturers motors for that matter for HP, its just a matter of finding out where you can get it.
now, im not saying you'll build a 300whp NA beast with a 5sfe. not gonna happen.
BUT
telling people things are "not worth it and prolly not safe to use" is just wrong, especially when you have no experience with them personally.
just cause its not turboed dont mean you cant do anything to it.

[lagos]

well you are right. i never tried to use an safc on an na 5sfe and sure, with enough time and money, you could see some type of gains.

im just talking from my personal opinion on the 5sfe. i know every mod i tired to do to my 5sfe, never returned any gains for me. i also want to make sure that Nigel understands that the safc is not a cool looking toy, and playing around with the settings while driving around, could run a risk of damage to the motor.

manny, you had your na 5sfe on the dyno with the safc hooked up, so you would know better then me. did you try to change the tune a little and did it dyno higher each time? if so, where in the rpm range do you think corrections should be made to pick up extra power? how much do you think there is to gain ?

This post has been edited by lagos: Dec 10, 2005 - 1:24 PM

[presure2]

manny, you had your na 5sfe on the dyno with the safc hooked up, so you would know better then me. did you try to change the tune a little and did it dyno higher each time? if so, where in the rpm range do you think corrections should be made to pick up extra power? how much do you think there is to gain ?

when i had the 5sfe on the dyno, it really wasnt to tune it, its was to get a baseline before the turbo, but yea, i did mess with it a little
when your on the dyno, just doing runs, the 1st run will be highest, and the runs immediatly following will always be lower because of heat.
with the safc, i messed with it a little, and got back all the hp i had lost over the course of the back to back runs i was doing.
i'd say on a well running car, with a proper tune, you could gain around 8-10whp outta the SAFCII.

[Kwanza26]

The computer tune does wonders on engines... some more than others. The 5SFE has a farily poor tune from the factory, which richens the top-end fueling as much as 10.1... so leaning that out with some ignition advance can unlock a lot of power. I do agree with lagos on about SAFC tuning not being considered a bolt-on and tweak sort of deal for the novice tuner. It can be very hazardous to your engine... but if you take proper precautions and understand how fueling works with the engine... you should be OK. I'll also say... I wouldn't estimate as high as 10whp on a stock motor... but throw in an intake and exhaust, then you can see 10whp from a tune (on top of gains from the intake and exhaust). The 5SFE or 3SFE for that matter simply aren't agressively performance oriented motors... so tuning is pretty limited. Comparatively speaking... Hondas see upwards of 20whp+ from ECU tuning (on top of basic bolt-ons). 10whp is nothing to sneeze at... but it's not a night/day difference either.

[presure2]

I do agree with lagos on about SAFC tuning not being considered a bolt-on and tweak sort of deal for the novice tuner. It can be very hazardous to your engine...

i agree with that.
like i said, its all about having a GOOD tune. how do you get a "good tune" ?
by someone who knows what they are doing, on a dyno.
with just an intake, on the dyno,and not really having any idea what the hell i was doing at the time, i was able to gain 5+whp...without really trying to "tune" it. ( i was just there to get a baseline pre-turbo)thats why i guessed around 8-10whp..
ill have to talk dustin into letting me install it on his GT here in a few months once the 3s is in, and we'll hit the dyno and see what we can come up with.

[TrdKing]

I was thinking about getting one of the APEXI safc but when i saw the cost i was a little confused

When you think about it you can get an intake and exhaust plus something else for the same price. I just think it will be one of those things for down the road (mild - heavy modding)

Another thing you could pick up a head from a wreckers port and polish it and deck it and probably get some decent numbers for cheap (approx. $250)

[Bigmeanbulldog55]

I was thinking about getting one of the APEXI safc but when i saw the cost i was a little confused

When you think about it you can get an intake and exhaust plus something else for the same price. I just think it will be one of those things for down the road (mild - heavy modding)

Another thing you could pick up a head from a wreckers port and polish it and deck it and probably get some decent numbers for cheap (approx. $250)

If you check ebay, they have safc2's for that price. I wanted to do a port, angel job, and head plain on my 5s, but I was told that engine management is more important.