Oh yes, I popped a few pills for my math final... Options

[Terzin1]

I dont think you guys have any idea about what i think of math. I dont hate it, i am just not good at it and i think i know the reason. It is not that I cannot remember the formulas or the equations or even the derivatives, it is that I think that I cannot understand why math was created the way it was. It was someone who decided that we should count by 1's. Why not 1/2's or anything?
Heres what confuses me. (this is not a math problem so bear with me) If you have a line that is 4 inches, a physical line that you can see, it is possible to divide that line into 3, 100 percent equal, parts. but if you have a line that equals 4, meaning you cannot see the line but it is represented as 4, then there is no way to divide that into 3 equal parts. the number comes out to 1.33333333333333....... and on forever. If it goes on forever then there is no end. If that is the case than how can you divide a line into three separate parts just fine? Theoretically, i think there should be an end and thus this is why i think math is flawed. Try and take that 3.9999999... x 3 again and you will see that it will not equal the whole number 4. There must be a problem.

[jgreening]

3.9999999...(ad infinitum) = 4.

[CelicaQT]

haha did those pills wear off yet?
Yeah I hate Calculus. I have one last Calc Class (Differential Equations) to go and then I'm done with that portion of math. There's just too much info. to know. I suck at it.

[WannabeGT4]

1.3333333333333333333... is 1 and 1/3. It's just a different way to represent the same number. If it makes your head hurt less just associate any repeating number with a fraction. Just because a 4 inch line cut in thirds can't be represented by tenths doesn't mean that it can't happen.

[Terzin1]

i dont think you understand tho. a piece of that number 4 is getting lost somewhere. 1.33333333333333 x 3 is not 4; its 3.99999999999. your calculator is rounding the infinite decimal into a fraction but in reality, it should not be a fraction. where did that .0000000000001, or however small a piece it is. where did that go?

[ILuvMyCelica95]

I hate math too. I really suck at it. I still add on my fingers all the time. lol.

and i'm already lost..



This post has been edited by ILuvMyCelica95: Dec 13, 2005 - 8:53 PM

[WannabeGT4]

There is no way to reprent 1/3 of something by using 10ths. It's that simple. Like I said if you're trying to make sense of it just use fractions. .1 is 1/10th .3 is 3/10ths etc.

Here is an example for you... We in America measure things using 16ths of an inch and 12 inches to a foot. When you try to convert these to metric you get seemingly random numbers and sometimes infinite sequential numbers... Does that make more sense to you?

This post has been edited by WannabeGT4: Dec 13, 2005 - 5:03 PM

[orvillescelica]

i dont think you understand tho. a piece of that number 4 is getting lost somewhere. 1.33333333333333 x 3 is not 4; its 3.99999999999. your calculator is rounding the infinite decimal into a fraction but in reality, it should not be a fraction. where did that .0000000000001, or however small a piece it is. where did that go?

One problem is the line itself. If you have a physical line that you yourself created, or that an andvanced line making machine created, it is most impossible for that line to be EXACTLY 4 units. In today standards, a tolerence of +-0.0001 when making something is extrodinary. So in reality, your line is 4+- 0.0001 which is much much more than the 1E-15 you are worrying about. And when you cut it into 3 pieces, you are not going to get three equal pieces, you are going to get one that is 1.34 and another that is 1.32, etc... So really, you cant compare reality to math. Because it is actually the opposite from what you said, Math is perfect and reality is flawed.

[jgreening]

i dont think you understand tho. a piece of that number 4 is getting lost somewhere. 1.33333333333333 x 3 is not 4; its 3.99999999999. your calculator is rounding the infinite decimal into a fraction but in reality, it should not be a fraction. where did that .0000000000001, or however small a piece it is. where did that go?

I didn't use a calculator. This is math fact. When we say that the fraction 1/3 is represented by 0.33333333 (ad infinitum), that means the "3"s go on FOREVER. IT NEVER STOPS. Therefore 3 x 1/3 = 0.999999999 (ad infinitum). The "9"s never stop either. Since we know that 3 x 1/3 = 1 and we know that 1/3 = 0.333333333 (ad infinitum), and that 0.333333333 (ad infinitum) x 3 = 0.99999999999 (ad infinitum), then, by deductive logic, we know that:

1 = 0.99999999999 (adinfintum)

[celicaST]

i take it you havnt taken calculus yet. the concept of infinity is a tough one to grasp and work with in mathematics. it caused problems centuries ago, and it continues to do so in modern physics. your comment though about counting by 1/2's or something other than units, well i guess you can count like that if you really want to, people might look at you strange though... if your really interested, go pick up a book on number theory, not an easy read .

celicaQT, dont worry about diff eq, not that bad after calc 3. when you hit nonlinear diff eq's though... not fun!

[FSX_Celica94GT]

its because 100 can not be divded by 3 perfectly. The thirds can be represented in fractions, but not decimals.

[Celica_Fan]

Nerds lol just kidding I ain't good at maths. Maths sucks I was better at automotive.

[Terzin1]

I can't explain this phenomenon and I am in M119 business calc. by the way. On a side note, I just got a 57% on my final, haha. I am terrible at math but I like to draw things to conclusions. Why is it that division is the only part of math that cannot be always used in examples for physical things? If you take a whole number like 2 and add another to it like 5 you get 7. You can say you had 2 apples and found 5 more for a total of 7 apples. You could do the same with subtraction and get rid of some apples. You could multiply the number of apples you have even. Addition, subtraction, and multiplication can all be used for physical and theoretical problems without ending up with decimals and especially decimals with no end. The only way that you get a decimal that never ends is by division, or from what I can tell. What is wrong with division? perhaps it is our number system and the fact that you cannot divide using a ten scale. Could it be that there is another number out there that would solve this problem? I just think that it is a problem that if solved, could explain alot of things. By the way, I would totally agree that math is perfect, therefore this problem should not exist.


This post has been edited by Terzin1: Dec 13, 2005 - 6:09 PM

[Shigexile]

Ahahahaaha

[Jdog1385]

i went up to calc 2 for engineers/architects...thank god i dont have to do anymore

[dlx742]

I love differentiating

lol jk

i have a solid "A" grade in calculus Ap right now, im stoked

[RocketScott]

..... By the way, I would totally agree that math is perfect, therefore this problem should not exist.

What problem? I see no problem. It's our understanding that is flawed. What you must understand when doing complex problems like this is the number of significant figures to us and that the numbers are only reprsentative of what you are trying to solve. You can divide a number by another and take it to the infinite decimal point but why? I'm a carpenter, I build large houses. The smallest unit of measure I use is 1/8 inch, maybe I'll add a little or subtract a little. There's no need for 32nds or 64ths for what I do, nobody will notice. When I was college that would not have worked. Whole different ball of wax. Running chemical reactions on a small scale requires so much more precision. Had to take numbers out to a bunch of decimal points.

Try to just focus on the problems you have in front of you. Simpify what you can before trying to calculate. Leave numbers as fractions as long as you can, this will help with simplifying.

[soulshadow]

yeah math is hard, but a 2nd round at calc. will make u pass with an B or better. Just make sure to pop lots of pills during finals. I did that and I passed with a B+ on my 2nd try at calc. 1.

[presure2]

this topic makes my head hurt! =)

[Dr_Tweak]

Exactly what pills are you supposed to pop?