V6 swap, for me, better than 3S-GTE, Yep, here we go again Options

[K-ESD]

It can be done, i know that.

I'm currently exploring my options for the possibilty of that swap.

I'm desperate to know more about it. I searched but all i can find is the same darn thing over and over "is it possible yes, blah blah blah". I need more details. I read adrian's posts in celicatech.com but he just wrote a scratch about it. I'm thinking about getting a 3MZ-FE and this is where I get confused.

From what I understand the 3MZ is a bored out 1MZ with vvti slapped on, this would mean that it would be possible to stuff a 230hp/242trq N/A engine with a 5spd (from the camry). Yumm !! But really, how does it compare to the 1MZ-FE on the outside. The 1MZ swap has been done on a 5th gen, as far as i know dimensions are identical (or very close) to the 6th gen. I know this will require alot of custom work that exceeds my knowlege/experience with car mecanics but i will seek help from my local gear heads to get this done. Right now i just have to know what goes and what doesn't as far as major components go (engine, tranny, etc...).

I'm really concidering this swap because a few things in my drivetrain are going.... concidering that my 5S-FE has 265k+ kms and i beat the shnit out of it everyday*. (what's the point of owning a sports car if ur gonna drive like a grandma). Something is going to break and I don't want to invest into what I already have, if i'm going to drop some money into my celica, i want something out of it.

Thanks in advance for your help

(p.s. found a 99' 1MZ-FE at a junk yard close to here for $900 cnd)

[Kwanza26]

I'll say the MZ series engines are basically bigger econo motors. Sure they have more power/torque... but still not a fun sporty type feel you can get from a 3SGTE. I dunno... might just be me... but I don't like to have a "swapped" engine run out of breath on me before 7000 rpms...

[Supersprynt]

But Kwanza, he already said it was better than 3sgte...

[K-ESD]

I'll say the MZ series engines are basically bigger econo motors. Sure they have more power/torque... but still not a fun sporty type feel you can get from a 3SGTE. I dunno... might just be me... but I don't like to have a "swapped" engine run out of breath on me before 7000 rpms...

I certainly won't argue with you, i "want" a 3S-GTE more than a 1MZ but i just don't have the cash to own one. The MZ is my best bang for the buck and the most redundant choice. The V6 gets good gas mileage on regular gas which is big thing for me, i drive aprox 40km to college (note that i'm a student with a student budget ) and back everyday. Believe me, i thought about this for a long time, it all came down to what is best for me.

EDIT: gas mileage is not the only factor, reliability, cost, parts availablility/proxymity - plus having the only (or first) V6 6th gen would make me feel all warm and tingly inside

This post has been edited by K-ESD: Jan 18, 2006 - 8:37 PM

[Supersprynt]

IMO the only thing you got going for this swap is that its unique. Gas mileage is no better than a 3s, reliability is no better because its still a swap. Cost, well first how do you know what parts you need? How do you even know what your doing? Buying just an engine, well I find that highly unwise especially with a swap that either very few have done, or never done. Your going down a dark road without a flashlight and a map.

[yungazzdriver]

yeah i mean if u wanna get the mz then go for it man no one else has done it...............its DIFFERENT! ...............get that feeling to say i did it first!!!

[Clipsetuner]

Well someone fineally brought this up, I plan on doing the 1mz swap before summer comes. Some things you will want to know, 3 out of the 4 motor mounts bolt up, a custom one has to be made for the 4th, I personaly am gonna have one CNC'd and mabey mass produce it. Other problems.... what tranny do you plan on using, shifter linkege, and wiring is where I have found most of the pain, Considering your a 94 OBD1, if you want something 96+ motor gotta do the convert one way or the other. If you plan on using a Solara setup, good luck try'n to find a motor with a manual tranny is a nightmare well at least on the west coast. Ill go into some more stuff later, I gotta get ready for work.

DTE

[Dr_Tweak]

I'm doing this swap this summer. After that, I'll be of more help, but for now a lot of it is unknown.

-Doc

[BBoYRuGGeD]

I'm doing this swap this summer. After that, I'll be of more help, but for now a lot of it is unknown.

-Doc

on a 6th gen celi?

bboy

[Hanyo]

I'm doing this swap this summer. After that, I'll be of more help, but for now a lot of it is unknown.

-Doc

keep me posted!

[lagos]

yeah i mean if u wanna get the mz then go for it man no one else has done it...............its DIFFERENT! ...............get that feeling to say i did it first!!!

that feeling of being different and being the 1st to do something, quickly wears off when your standing over your car, scratching your head thinking, "how the hell do i finish this.... ive got no one to ask for help" .

if your going to attempt to do something thats never been done before, make sure you have a few of the common swaps under your belt so that youll know what you are doing.

[Kwanza26]

that feeling of being different and being the 1st to do something, quickly wears off when your standing over your car, scratching your head thinking, "how the hell do i finish this.... ive got no one to ask for help" .

if your going to attempt to do something thats never been done before, make sure you have a few of the common swaps under your belt so that youll know what you are doing.

Unfortunately people don't think like that. Most people who want to be "different" are actually very uncapable of doing anything by themselves... otherwise they'd know better.

[Blakout16]

i think tweak will be able to do it, clipsetuner has a possibility... the guy who posted it needs to just get some general knowledge and hands on experience to even concider this kind of swap

[K-ESD]

btw i am not the one that is going to do this swap
i talked to a few local gear heads that have many swaps under their belt, they are the one thats going to do this and i'll assist and learn as i go. I am the one that should provide them with critical details to make things easier for them. but....

no on has really responded to what i was asking (excluding Clipsetuner, thanks bud)

i don't want to know if/who/weither/choice. I need to know about the 3MZ and it's similarities with the 1MZ and most importantly the problems that i will encounter or might encounter, like hood clearance for example.

We should be talking about engines and trannys and electrical and mounts and axles and fuel systems, dimensions, etc.... Please, i don't want this thread to turn into the crap i found searching about it.

Thanks

p.s. no offense to anyone here but stop treating me like a damn n00b and READ the first post, i already mentioned that i wasn't going to do this alone.

[presure2]

its not a matter of if, its definetly doable, one of the 5th gen guys over on celicatech did it, in california no less.
its becoming a popular swap for the mkII mr2 guys, also. (you can read a bunch about it over on mr2oc in the MKII JDM/hybrid forum
the only flaw i see is that your seemed to be concerned about budget, and thats NOT somthing you wanna have a problem with in a custom setup like what your going after.
good luck!

[Clipsetuner]

Allright I will state from the start I am NO expert on this and dont take my word as law. I was gonna start emailing tweak about this here pretty quick along with other people, but lets just get the biggest Info thread going.

1MZ vs. 3MZ: I dont really know much about the 3MZ sep VVTi and a few other things, I personaly never considered it because it is out of my budget.

1MZ breakdown: I chose it because they are cheap, reliable, and parts are very easy to come by.

Motor Mounts: I have a buddy who did this on his MR2 he was able to use 3 of the stock 5s mounts and had to custom fab the 4th I will try and get pics, I hold this to be true for the celica swap as well.

Transmissions: 3sge, 5sfe, turbo mr2, solara I am pretty sure the Solara is the only one that I believe that requires a ST205 rear mount.... I am gonna run 5s.

Wiring: From the information I have collected so far on this, its gonna be a pain in the arse. Idealy a complete solara setup would be nice but this isnt a perfect world. I need todo some more information here but all West Coast solara's are automatics, and I believe most if not all Camry's were too. If this being the case you would need to track down a East coast solara wiring harness and ECU and it should be easyer... That being said those are expensive and hard to come by, I am very interested in knowing if a Automatic ECU can be tricked into a manual setup and if so how? Once I get more of these questions figured out I plan on combining my 2 harness together then sorting out what is not needed.

Fuel system: I plan on just adding a Supra TT pump

Hood clearence: without it ever being done its a hard call, I believe it shall fit, stock hood would not clear the TRD supercharger tho.

My thoughts on this swap from when I decided to ditch the 3sgte project for now anyways, was a decently quick DD and reliabality. I am shoting for about 200whp in the end. 1 thing you have to consider tho is that this is a Aluminum block vs. the steel block of the 3sgte, this v6 boosted with the TRD supercharger will never see the likes of over 250whp, its basicly the same concept of the 7afe where it doesnt get that much over stock. I plan on later down the road turbo charging it but not much boost just to see what it can do but that would probley be 07 at least. I know about 2 months ago when my 7a decided to start buring oil like a mofo it was either ST205 it or v6 and at this point the v6 suits my needs.

Thoughts comments anything really, I really want to get tweaks insite.

DTE

[Einhander]

Just so you know, When all is said and done, You'll have just as much invested in a 1m swap as you would a 3s. I paid 1300 for my 99 1m in august of 04, By the time you include the already mention custom mount, wiring, and labor if your not doing it yourself, you'll be in the same ball park as a 3s swap.

I will agree however it is a echo motor, But quite a few have made upwards of 320+hp on boost with tunning. There are even a few camrys with 400+ hp, with only internal mods being pistons, I don't see needing more than that on a fwd.

[Clipsetuner]

Its not that im looking to save money, you cant do that with any setup weither it be 5sfte to a 3sgte to a 1mz, its just not gonna happen once you decide todo a swap and invest time in money, you will never see that money again. The 1mz for me is a strong reliable daily driver motor, if it wasnt they wouldent have put it in the camry's forever. The 3sgte however is in the AWD platforms/RWD platforms and it does amazing there however many 3sgte'd swap people complain of traction issues running a FWD setup, I dont doubt there will be some with the added torque of the 1mz but its coming from a FWD to a FWD so I think/hope its easyer to control, the 1 3sgte swapped car I got to drive (thanks Doge) had insane amount of torque steer and was quick not fast.

When you compare the ST185 200hp to the 1mz's 190hp ratings it is only a 10hp difference but you also get a ton more torque, Einhander if you have links to some of these high horsepower 1mz's I would be very interested to read, I havent read anything positive about the 1mz past 250hp.

For my swap which I might recomend is just buy'n a donor car, that is my plan, pull the motor rebuild it, and peice it all together and see what I get.

DTE

This post has been edited by Clipsetuner: Jan 19, 2006 - 8:36 AM

[Einhander]

The pricing thing was directed toward the original poster, Just so ya know. If your doing this swap yourself you can come out a little cheaper, Hopefully atleast.

www.mr2oc.com in the stickys for the v6 forums. If you can wait a few i can post them here.


One of the guys i was referring to posted numbers here, http://www.solaraguy.org/viewtopic.php?t=22776 i can't find any of the other specifc cars right now, But will later.

His set up as stated in the thread. Notice the first is through a auto.

"99 Solara v6 auto
s/c at 12.5 psi, 75 shot, all the bolt ons
320hp 320tq at the wheels

00 camry v6 5 speed
s/c at 7psi, some bolt ons
274hp 282tq to the wheels

97 camry v6 auto
s/c at 7psi, some bolt ons
233hp 236tq to the wheels"

This post has been edited by Einhander: Jan 19, 2006 - 8:56 AM

[Clipsetuner]

I think with his limited hands on experiance his cost will far exceed a 3sgte swap, but thats me talking, I am not a certified anything and am a weekend warrior. Once this swap can be done a few times I believe it will become fesiable swap then the 3sgte, and in far favor because local parts that are cheap. Like I said in my first post if me, tweak, or K-ESD can get that motor mount fabbed I can get CNC'd copy's made, and I had planed on having all mine made as well. I personaly think its a great alternative to the 3sgte as far as power goes, also being the 1mz is a lighter motor then the 3sgte as well.

DTE