Help with GT4, not going, upgrade advice and all (please) Options

[NERDIE_BOY]

hi everyone

I need some help and advice on how to get my GT4 going that I bought of someone that wasn’t going at that time because he said that it needs a engine replacement (halfcut) so I got the ST185 for a reasonable price, so when i got it home i try to start it (I knew its was going to be a project car), it turns over and fires dies straight away and there’s a engine light symbol turns on when I turn the ignition to reds. So does that mean a dead trashed motor or just a minor problem?
So I think I need a replacement.

ST185 PROJECT GT4 AWD turbo (way cheaper then an a WRX, EVO, Starlet GT, pulsar GTIR)


ENGINES


So where do I start, with my GT4 there’s engine for my car such as the st185 (current) with my car and the st205 motor.

What’s the different between the 185 and the 205 STOCK FORMS?


(Got this info on google)
Commercial Toyota Celica ST185 GT4 Specs (1990-1993)


Type 3S-GTE. Cast iron block, aluminum head construction. Transversally mounted.

1998 cm3, water cooled in-line 4, 204 Bhp@6000 rev/min, 275 NM@3200rev/min.

Bore: 86mm, stroke 86mm compression ratio 8.8:1. Toyota CT26 oil lubricated, water cooled turbo (0.75 bar max. pressure) and water/air intercooler. 2 OHC belt driven and hydraulic tappets. 4 valves per cylinder (50°). Oil cooler. Electronic fuel injection (Bosch L-Jetronic licensed).


(Got this info on google)
Commercial Toyota Celica ST205 GT4 Specs (1994-1999)

Engine

Type 3s-GTE. Cast iron block, aluminum head construction. Transversally mounted.

1998 cm3, water cooled in-line 4, 242 Bhp@6000 rev/min, 305 NM@4000rev/min.

Bore: 86mm, stroke 86mm compression ratio 8.5:1. Toyota CT20B oil lubricated, water cooled turbo (0.9 bar max. pressure) and water/air intercooler. 2 OHC belt driven and hydraulic tappets. 4 valves per cylinder (50°). Oil cooler. TCCS integral engine management (injection, ignition and turbo)

Engine and drive train (running gear)


I try read other people problems from other forms but there’s to much info and don’t know where to start so I started my own forum (what would I do without forums) (free info)


So the st185 makes less power then the st205, but the question is that / is there a different in size or construction etc?

I think there isn’t, this is what i think (correct me if I am wrong) the different is the turbo, fuel system, compression ratio and gearbox. so what I mean is that can the st185 make the same power (stock form) as the st205 with the same turbo, fuel system, compression ratio / so what I think (correct me if I am wrong) that the st205 is an updated st185 motor but with better goodies.

and I was wondering if can i use other Celica motors such as the front wheel drive Celica motors (correct me if i am wrong) the biggest I think is the 2.2 to 2.4 liter Celica motor, would that fit in gt4 and still be 4wd. (because people are swapping GT4 motors to put in FWD Celica so can I do that vise versa with a 2.2 or 2.4 FWD Celica motor to a GT4 and still be AWD???? My thoughts I think so it can be done)?????

and if I can use the 2.2 or 2.4 front wheel drive Celica motor in a GT4 if still AWD then is it more reliable in power increasing (meaning tuning, turbo etc) then the GT4 2.0 (preferably stay with 4wd) no other point of getting these GT4’s

GT4 2.0 turbo motor VS 2.2 or 2.4 turbo motor out of a FWD Celica ??????
The question is that will it be more powerful because of its bigger displacement over the GT4 motor series??

(got this info on the net) 2002 the version built (I think stock) (I think wont make as much power then the GT4 motor because of smaller displacement 1.8 vs. 2.0)
The 1.8-liter DOHC 16-valve I-4 in the GT-S makes its 180 peak horsepower at a stratospheric 7,600 rpm and maximum 130 lb.-ft. of torque at an equally uncommon 6,800 revs.



And as well there’s a Toyota Camry (the old ones from around 1990 models and above) motor that are V6 so I was wondering can I put that In a GT4?

So that means if I can put a Camry V6 motor in a gt4 (still AWD) does it has to be twin turbo or one big turbo??

Just wondering if its twin turbo can u use 2 BOV (phssssssss phssssssss)??

turbo VS non turbo VS supercharger???

What’s better a turbo charged engine (got turbo lag but makes good power gains and its sweat turbo buzz noise with phssssssss sound) or a non turbo charged engine (no lag at all and not as loud as turbo or phssssssss) ?????????????



As well can i use other motors such as VR4 (evo motors) (4 - v6) ,wrx motor, GTiR motor, and etc in a GT4, has it been done before or it cant be done?



What’s the cheapest route i think any of them would do? No limit (it’s a project car) (it will be cool if can eat up or keep up with a 6.0 V8 Holden Commodore 300kw I think), it has to be cheaper then a new EVO or twin turbo skyline?

so what’s the best motor for my gt4 ?

will a gt4 keep up with wrx, evo, Pulsar GtiR, skyline’s, supra’s, mr2, civic’s, intergras, or can eat them up when the GT4 motors are done up or done up with other motor?

can GT4 (stock form) keep up or eats up evo or wrx etc ??

What’s the power different between GT4 vs EVO vs WRX??? (stock form and modded up form)

What about a 4wd 6 speed box can u put one in a GT4

So what things can be done on gt4’s such as (what can I do) need help please to what can be done on motors for performance and power and durability etc

Motor:- use a ST185 or ST205 (if they are the same in constructions and design ill use st185 because they are no different and its cheaper if not ill use st205 or other MOTORS)
GT4 motors:-/

What’s better do the internals first then upgrade the externals later on???
Or do both?
Or vice versa?
Or see what power I want first? Don’t now big power I think
Is it going to be for fast ¼ mile time? Want a pretty good time 10s,11s,12s,
Is it going to be use for fast acceleration (0-100 KMH)? Want to be pretty fast some where like between 4 - 6 sec to 100KMH
Is it going to have a good turbo whereas there not to much turbo lag? Something good from low end power to high end power
Is it going to be use for day to day driving? Yeah sure
Is it going to be use for street racing? Definitely
Etc?

Hmm what am I going to choose, to hard to select can I use all of them ABOVE with out effecting performance on each other

What’s the best TURBO for my situation (that depends doesn’t it) for the GT4 motor or other motors that I can use in my GT4?
What can I do on internals and externals on the motor? For performance and power and durability

Fuel pump? Upgrade?
Turbo? Bigger one (ball bearing, ceramic etc) ( what about a supercharger) what’s better (every things got pros and cons)
Blow of valve? Install one (how many BOV can u install on one turbo or superchrager)
Intercooler? Upgrade or install big front mounted intercooler
Radiator? Upgrade or keep original (to much heat can destroy performance)
Injectors? Upgrade to bigger ones
Pistons? Forged pistons or
Rods? Steel rods (if I need a upgrade) or
Exhaust? What can I do (current 3inch all the way with 9icnh cannon with 4inch outlet)
Dumpy pipe?
Air filter?
Oil filter?
Oil cooler?
Computer? Upgrade
Valves?
Timing / Mapping?
Sparkplugs?
Cams?
Cam gears?
Head work? Porting and polishing. Valve and lifters
Bore and stroke? Displacement
Cold air intake?
Boost controller?
Fuel regulator?
Hydraulic tappets?

What else have I missed?
What else can be done



Gearbox:- can I put a 6 speed gearbox in a GT4 or if i stay with gt4 gearbox need stronger internals and modified such as clutch, change gearing (cogs), what else can I do or what should be done?

What about the drive shafts or the CV shafts. Do I need to upgrade or modify them?

Diffs:- (if I need to change diff or stronger internals) stronger independent diffs if I cant change them modified the internals, change gearing (cogs) better gearing. What can be done?

Handling:- suspension, sway bars, ,bigger brakes for all four wheels, what else can I do or what can be done?

What handles better in stock form GT4 vs EVO vs WRX???

Then what handles better when they all got all the done up goodies that u can do, what then??

I think they all handle good because they are AWD and they got front and rear independent suspension (independent diff)


And other things are going to be done such as mods, electricals, bodykits, and interior etc not sure yet (more important thing it to get running gear going first and then everything else later that I listed above)

So ill ask for more later

So please I need help, ill appreciate for everybody comments and ideas and experience people for there input Willy.

[CelicaZR]

Welcome mate
Nice where did you pick up that GT-4.
I want 1.

First of all the different between the 185 and 205 motor is the
turbo. 185 has the ct26 and the 205 has the ct20b.
The 2nd gen 3sgte (185) in stock form boost at 8 psi I think, while the
3rd gen 3sgte boost at 12 psi stock.

Wow so many questions
I cant answer them all, but there are heaps of people
here who can help you out.

Where about in Sydney are you?

[Insanity-74]

Soooo many questions..I`ll try to answer as best I can from my years of GT4 ownership, of course opinions differ from person to person as we all get our knowledge from different sources anyway here goes….deep breath

What’s the different between the 185 and the 205 STOCK FORMS?

Well the main difference is the Turbo and the intercooler setup, the turbo on the 185 in slightly less efficient..saying that if you want to “hybrid” the turbo, the st185 turbo is the best option for doing this too and can be made into a much better unit than the st205 turbo.
The charge cooler is different…185 has a very un-effective air/air charge cooler, whilst the st205 has a water/air charge cooler which despite many opinions is good to about 400BHP.
Also there are other minor differences, different ECU`s, different oil filter location, etc etc.

So the st185 makes less power then the st205, but the question is that / is there a different in size or construction etc?

No

The st205 is an updated st185 motor but with better goodies.

Yes

and I was wondering if can i use other Celica motors such as the front wheel drive Celica motors (correct me if i am wrong) the biggest I think is the 2.2 to 2.4 liter Celica motor, would that fit in gt4 and still be 4wd. (because people are swapping GT4 motors to put in FWD Celica so can I do that vise versa with a 2.2 or 2.4 FWD Celica motor to a GT4 and still be AWD???? My thoughts I think so it can be done)?????

With the right amount of money, ie lots, anything is possible but why? The 3sgte is quite arguably the best motor Toyota ever produced

The question is that will it be more powerful because of its bigger displacement over the GT4 motor series??

They can be made more powerfull with lots of money, but that could be said of any motor you could buy…3sgte engines already have a high BHP so it’s a good starting point and will cost you less in the longrun.

So that means if I can put a Camry V6 motor in a gt4 (still AWD)

Theoretically you can yes, but again it depends how much money you have.

does it has to be twin turbo or one big turbo??

Either is relatively easy to do

Just wondering if its twin turbo can u use 2 BOV (phssssssss phssssssss)??

On a V6/V8 you would need 2, on an inline 4 you would only need 1

turbo VS non turbo VS supercharger???


Turbo every time..they are great, but there is an early MR2 sgte engine available that was super charged by Toyota.


As well can i use other motors such as VR4 (evo motors) (4 - v6) ,wrx motor, GTiR motor, and etc in a GT4, has it been done before or it cant be done?

Never heard of this being done, why would you want to???? Again, if you have an endless pot of money, anything is possible


What’s the cheapest route i think any of them would do? No limit (it’s a project car) (it will be cool if can eat up or keep up with a 6.0 V8 Holden Commodore 300kw I think), it has to be cheaper then a new EVO or twin turbo skyline?

so what’s the best motor for my gt4 ?

A 3rd Gen 3-sgte engine

will a gt4 keep up with wrx, evo, Pulsar GtiR, skyline’s, supra’s, mr2, civic’s, intergras, or can eat them up when the GT4 motors are done up or done up with other motor?

Skylines and MR2T`s might be a problem as they are very rapid, the rest…some you`ll win some you`ll lose. I can beat Pulsars, Civics, Integras, Subaru`s all day long, Supras…the NA ones are easy fodder..the TT versions I can beat 0-60 but after that I have to watch as it disappears into the distance

can GT4 (stock form) keep up or eats up evo or wrx etc ??

Yes, the earlier versions…the new ones….not a chance…remember its an old car now.

What’s the power different between GT4 vs EVO vs WRX??? (stock form and modded up form)

Like for like in age, they are pretty similar, the new Evo`s etc pack more of a punch now.
Probably around 50 – 100 BHP more

What about a 4wd 6 speed box can u put one in a GT4

Never seen it done, but again…with an endless supply of money, anything is possible.

So what things can be done on gt4’s such as (what can I do) need help please to what can be done on motors for performance and power and durability etc

Motor:- use a ST185 or ST205 (if they are the same in constructions and design ill use st185 because they are no different and its cheaper if not ill use st205 or other MOTORS)
GT4 motors:-/

Get the ST205 version, its newer so will put up with more abuse

What’s better do the internals first then upgrade the externals later on???
Or do both?

If your gonna do the internals…you may as well get them done first, but you`ll only need to do the internals if your going to push more than 350BHP

Is it going to be for fast ¼ mile time? Want a pretty good time 10s,11s,12s,

I get about mid 12`s with 300BHP

Is it going to be use for fast acceleration (0-100 KMH)? Want to be pretty fast some where like between 4 - 6 sec to 100KMH

I get 0 – 60MPH in just under 5 secs

Is it going to have a good turbo whereas there not to much turbo lag? Something good from low end power to high end power

Very little turbo lag in standard form, kicks in at 3000rpm

Is it going to be use for day to day driving? Yeah sure

I do 400 Miles a week to and from work, its only let me down once (snapped cam belt)

Is it going to be use for street racing? Definitely

That’s illegal and a very silly thing to do, but I`m not one to preach. Just be carefull

What’s the best TURBO for my situation (that depends doesn’t it) for the GT4 motor or other motors that I can use in my GT4?

Depends upon what you want to use your car for, as a daily driver I`d stick with the standard turbo and just get it hyberdised ---is that even a real word or have I just made it up??????

Fuel pump? Upgrade

Yes….lots to choose from..walbro are probably the most commonly used

Turbo? Bigger one (ball bearing, ceramic etc) ( what about a supercharger) what’s better (every things got pros and cons)

Already covered this..stick with the original one

Blow of valve? Install one (how many BOV can u install on one turbo or superchrager)

Not essential as it dosnt improve performace, they are all about the same in their operation…you`ll need only one…more than that is just silly.

Intercooler? Upgrade or install big front mounted intercooler

Keep the st205 water/air charge cooler if that’s the engine you get, if you buy a 185 engine, upgrade to a front mount.

Radiator? Upgrade or keep original (to much heat can destroy performance)

If the top is starting to go white…change it. Other than that I have had no isues with the standard one.

Injectors? Upgrade to bigger ones

Only if your going to run over 340BHP

Pistons? Forged pistons or
Rods? Steel rods (if I need a upgrade)

Again, only needed if your going to run big power…always nice to have though just in case.

Exhaust? What can I do (current 3inch all the way with 9icnh cannon with 4inch outlet)

3” pipe and your going to have boost creep problems with a standard turbo with an internal waste gate….2.5” is the perfect size for an GT4.

Dumpy pipe?

Eh?

Air filter?

Any…there is a million to choose from…K&N are about the best but many come close. Personally I`d stick with a K&N panel filter in the standard air box…with an apexi induction kit I lost 5bhp on the rolling road. The standard set up is very under rated but actuall y works better than the induction kits.

Oil filter?

Yes they have one

Oil cooler?

They have one of those too. Unless your going to make it a track car, stick with the standard water/oil cooler as making the oil too cool has detrimental effects on the engine.

Computer? Upgrade

Cheap - Apexi Power FC
Expensive – Motec

Valves?

No issues

Timing / Mapping?

Needs to be done when you install a new ECU

Sparkplugs?

Cold grade 7 or better – I used Denso with good results

Cams?

Standard cams are very good with nice power delivery. I`d stick with them

Cam gears?

Only really needed with big power…always a risk of adjustable cam gears slipping and causing mass destruction..well not really as the engines are non interference. But not really needed.

Head work? Porting and polishing. Valve and lifters

Can do on an st185, but not really required on an st205 as the heads already have good flow

Boost controller?

Apexi AVCR or Greddy

Fuel regulator?

Nope not needed

Hydraulic tappets?

Already has them

Gearbox:- The GT4 gear box is very strong and should need any mods

What about the drive shafts or the CV shafts. Do I need to upgrade or modify them?

Nope all good…rally heritage so they are already pretty strong, I know of one guy with over 500BHP on standard gear box and drive components…no probs so far.

Diffs:- (if I need to change diff or stronger internals) stronger independent diffs if I cant change them modified the internals, change gearing (cogs) better gearing. What can be done?

Nothing need doing. Open transfer diff and front diff semi - LSD diff on the rear

Handling:- suspension, sway bars, ,bigger brakes for all four wheels, what else can I do or what can be done?

Coil overs are fantastic and worth the money go for Tein, white line do a rear anti role bar that transforms the car…I fitted one last week and the difference is amazing.

What handles better in stock form GT4 vs EVO vs WRX???

Evo

Then what handles better when they all got all the done up goodies that u can do, what then??

Still the Evo

When you have decided which engine you are going to get I`ll be able to be more helpful and specific with the answers, but with so many questions my brain hurts a bit

If you have a GT4, the join the GT4 owners club, its worth the £20 as you will learn so much, just be a little thick skinned as the forum can be a little rough on newbies sometimes.

Check out –

www.fensport.com

www.gt4oc.net