clutch going bad?, time for an upgrade? Options

[BBoYRuGGeD]

aright fellas need some advice from my trusted fellow 6gcers

ok so i've got a 3SGTE under the hood and im using the GT tranny with an oem replacement clutch from exedy. for a month or so now the clutch doesnt feel the same as it did 8 months ago. the pedal feels softer (not a limp noodle, just softer), it takes longer revving now to get into 1st gear, and sunday after the GSP meet after some hard driving it starting to make some kinda squeaking noise right when im letting go of the clutch, tho it goes away after the gear engages. aright the last part only happens sometimes but a gut feeling tells me it's gunna get worse over time anyone have any suggestions and/or advice about the squeaking? think it might go away if i replace the tranny fluid? i'm trying to get the most out of this clutch until its time to purchase a new one.

second...i wunna get a clutch that'll hold the power and last very long ('til the tranny blows or when i convert to the e153). speaking for the GT tranny, i've read from spec's site that the stage 2 and 2+ will last longer but is for light-moderately modded vehicles. the stage 3 and 3+ (with better wear characteristic) is for heavy modded vehicles and "offers good wear characteristic" <-- meaning wont last as long? anyway what stage do u guys recommend? since i think my oem clutch may just crap out on me within a few months

also i jsut wunna add the GT tranny is holding damn good now for almost 8 months. goes into gear with no problem and i have no grinding problem. i got the tranny with 75k miles on it and feels as strong as it did 8 months ago right after my swap was completed im confident this tranny will last me 'til its time when i HAVE to upgrade to a stronger one

bboy

[jgreening]

speaking for the GT tranny, i've read from spec's site that the stage 2 and 2+ will last longer but is for light-moderately modded vehicles. the stage 3 and 3+ (with better wear characteristic) is for heavy modded vehicles and "offers good wear characteristic" <-- meaning wont last as long? anyway what stage do u guys recommend? since i think my oem clutch may just crap out on me within a few months

Do you mean GT tranny or E-153 here? I would make sure you read all the threads on MR2OC.com about Spec clutches. Alot of people have had good luck with them but there is a significant minority that report very bad chatter problems - particularly with stage III and above.

I have been EXTREMELY pleased with my Clutchmasters Stage III. Pedal feel is EXACTLY like stock but grabs hard and very durable.

BTW, CM III = Spec II in terms of HP/Tq holding.

[hitcachi]

I have a spec II (non 3S-GTE though) and its an awesome clutch. Also ask lagos. Hes knows his stuff when it comes to clutch related topics. Or you could just search some of his last posts. I really dont know much else other then, I've changed my own clutch before.

[BBoYRuGGeD]

Do you mean GT tranny or E-153 here? I would make sure you read all the threads on MR2OC.com about Spec clutches. Alot of people have had good luck with them but there is a significant minority that report very bad chatter problems - particularly with stage III and above.

I have been EXTREMELY pleased with my Clutchmasters Stage III. Pedal feel is EXACTLY like stock but grabs hard and very durable.

BTW, CM III = Spec II in terms of HP/Tq holding.

I meant GT Tranny since i've yet to convert to the e153 tranny. Other than Spec i'm also looking into CM and ACT. I had no idea CM III = Spec II in terms of HP/Tq holding, thnx for that piece of info...looks like I need to get reading but i've got some time 'til the stock clutch gives out...lol

bboy

[Dr_Tweak]

Hmmm, sounds like the clutch may be be holding up huh? I'm not sure on the sqeaking noise though, that's an odd one. What do you mean that it takes longer revving to get it into first gear? Is the clutch slipping at all? (Like the engine revs up but the car doesn't go faster). It's possible that you need to bleed out the clutch line, maybe have someone do that and see if it helps at all.

I'd say pick up a either a stage 3, it will hold the power really well, the other thing you could do is have a custom clutch made by Spec, they will make you one using a 3SGTE cluch plate and splines to match the GT tranny, that would be a nice route to take. If you want, bring it with you when you and Mark come pick up his 3000GT, I can probably throw that baby in for you in a few hours, then you can break it in on the ride home... both you can Mark will be running on brand new high performance clutches, so you'll have to challenge each other to NOT push the cars! HAHA

-Doc

This post has been edited by Dr_Tweak: Mar 2, 2006 - 6:10 PM

[lagos]

you hear this tweak? this is why ive been saying not to use an OEM clutch in a swap. i had pretty much the same problem as bboy after installing a new OEM PP with a act street disk after about 6 months of driving.

bboy, call spec and get them to make you the custom disk. they pretty much know exactly what you need by now since i ordered mine, and got other people turned onto doing the same thing. do NOT go any higher then a stage 3, 6 puck disk.

a stage 2 disk is probably perfect for normal street driving, while still being able to hold the power of the 3sgte.

a stage 3 disk is less forgiving and wants to grab right away. its less streetable, but after you get used to it, youll really like it. if i had to give an honest opinion of mine, id say i love it, but i can see how its a little over kill for the power im making.

clutch masters is another good brand, but for some reason they want about 600$ for a clutch kit for us... it seems very over priced.

ACT is alright. one thing that i dont like about their higher end puck clutches is that the presure plate is very heavy giving you serious work out on your foot and their clutches are not spring loaded so they will not engage as smoothly .

as for the chirping you hear when u let the clutch out at idle, i have had the same thing. the problem happens from lack of lubrication to the fork, or throwout bearing. an easy fix is to adjust your clutch pedal freeplay untill the noise goes away .

[jgreening]

clutch masters is another good brand, but for some reason they want about 600$ for a clutch kit for us... it seems very over priced.

I got my CM III (a normal mr2t clutch) for about $450 shipped. This is about $100-$125 more than the comparable Spec. I would pay twice that to make sure I had no chatter - but thats just me.

This post has been edited by jgreening: Mar 4, 2006 - 9:25 PM

[BBoYRuGGeD]

Doc: no i wouldnt say the clutch is slipping...but sometimes it sorta "feels like it will" but doesnt. lol if that makes any sense...

Lagos: thnx for the clutch info. i think i'll grab myself a SPEC stage 3 now but i'll wait a few months 'til my oem is ready to go to clutch heaven lol i guess i'll try that fix just to give it a shot

bboy

[lagos]

clutch masters is another good brand, but for some reason they want about 600$ for a clutch kit for us... it seems very over priced.

I got my CM III (a normal mr2 clutch) for about $450 shipped. This is about $100-$125 more than the comparable Spec. I would pay twice that to make sure I had no chatter - but thats just me.

my honest opinion on cltuch brands is that they are all basically the same thing, under a different brand name. people like ACT put heavy springs in ther presure plates, or no springs in their puck disks but thats about it. 90% of the time, people have clutch issues because of installer error and not because one brand is better then the next.

i would be willing to be that a CM 3 and a spec stage 2 are the same exact product.

This post has been edited by lagos: Mar 4, 2006 - 4:04 PM

[Defgeph]

Paid 440 for my stage III Spec clutch. Its perfect for me. Its an on and off clutch, good luck trying to slip it. I have had no problems at all, make sure you INSTALL and BREAK IT IN properly.

Highway driving does not count as break in driving.

[jgreening]

i would be willing to be that a CM 3 and a spec stage 2 are the same exact product.

I will take that bet....but you got to make it worth my while to demonstrate proof.

They are comparable and I am not saying the spec is a bad product. I only know what I read and there are several people that have had chatter problems with Spec II and Spec III clutches. I could list links but thats probably not necessary. On the other hand, I have not seen a post in the last two years where someone had problems with a CM clutch. This is all anectdotal and does not necessarily "prove" anything. However, this anectdotal experience is all we really have to rely on unless some competent person has done side by side comparisons or tests. My $.02

This post has been edited by jgreening: Mar 4, 2006 - 9:31 PM

[lagos]

i would be willing to be that a CM 3 and a spec stage 2 are the same exact product.

I will take that bet....but you got to make it worth my while to demonstrate proof.

They are comparable and I am not saying the spec is a bad product. I only know what I read and there are several people that have had chatter problems with Spec II and Spec III clutches. I could list links but thats probably not necessary. On the other hand, I have not seen a post in the last two years where someone had problems with a CM clutch. This is all anectdotal and does not necessarily "prove" anything. However, this anectdotal experience is all we really have to rely on unless some competent person has done side by side comparisons or tests. My $.02

i used to think the same way, untill i saw a bunch of different clutch disks side by side. you can tell that there isint much thats different in different brands. a lof the the disks are made at the same place and just sold under different brand names. manny bought an ACT clutch and when we installed his disk, it said excedy on it, lol... so there is some proof of that.

i think CM3 and spec stage 2 are a normal spring loaded kevlar disk. there really is no better or worse way to make that. the presure plate springs is pretty much the biggest thing that sets these comanies apart. some like to give you a near stock pedal feel, while people like ACT like you give you a back breaking hold.

if you do a search on the net about clutch opinions, youll find that almost every brand is slipit 50/50. people will start raveing about one one brand, then complaining about it on the next page. if you find less negative things about CM, then keep in mind that there are less reviews of that clutch posted, in general. most of the issues people hear are not really the disks fault, but install error, or bad break in.

the only brand im not a fan of is ACT. they make their presure plates so heavy that the clutch takes all your body weight to engage (in their high end stage kits). they also dont put any springs on the clutch disks, and that makes the engagement very sharp

here is a pic of the CM stage 3



and here is one of the spec stage 2



This post has been edited by lagos: Mar 4, 2006 - 10:35 PM

[hitcachi]

the only brand im not a fan of is ACT. they make their presure plates so heavy that the clutch takes all your body weight to engage (in their high end stage kits). they also dont put any springs on the clutch disks, and that makes the engagement very sharp

Whats manny say about his ACT?

[Teoll]

Hey I know this comment might not quite be on topic (or at least where the topic has gone!). I have a stock 5SFE engine, tranny, clutch, flywheel, etc. however believe I need a new clutch (well actually just the release bearing). I eventually want to do a full 3S-GTE swap (as all of us on 6gc!) and have read that it will bolt up to the 5SFE tranny. My question is how the clutch and flywheel all fit into this, do you need to upgrade them? As mentioned I want to buy a new performance clutch, however I want it to work with my 5SFE engine/tranny right now, but I also want it to work when I put in a 3S-GTE engine. Is this possible, will a clutch I buy now work for both engine application?

I don't have much knowledge on this topic, but it seems you all do so I hope you can give me some insight.

Thanks.

[lagos]

Hey I know this comment might not quite be on topic (or at least where the topic has gone!). I have a stock 5SFE engine, tranny, clutch, flywheel, etc. however believe I need a new clutch (well actually just the release bearing). I eventually want to do a full 3S-GTE swap (as all of us on 6gc!) and have read that it will bolt up to the 5SFE tranny. My question is how the clutch and flywheel all fit into this, do you need to upgrade them? As mentioned I want to buy a new performance clutch, however I want it to work with my 5SFE engine/tranny right now, but I also want it to work when I put in a 3S-GTE engine. Is this possible, will a clutch I buy now work for both engine application?

I don't have much knowledge on this topic, but it seems you all do so I hope you can give me some insight.

Thanks.

yes you do need an upgraded clutch for the 3sgte.

problem is, that you need a custom clutch kit for the 3sgte swap. meaning that some of the parts have to work with the 5sfe tranny while some have to work with the 3sgte motor. so, NO you cant install a clutch kit on your celica now and just reuse it when you swap.

do the whole clutch if you are having throw out bearing problems. id recomend going with a cheap OEM clutch for now, and then buy and upgraded custom clutch kit later when u are ready to swap.

read defgephs swap info thread on all the details.

[Teoll]

Thanks Lagos for your advice.

I am hoping you can also help me with my problem, I think it is my clutch thats causing the problems. Posted my problem under a new topic.

http://www.6gc.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=34660

[eggman40]

aright fellas need some advice from my trusted fellow 6gcers

second...i wunna get a clutch that'll hold the power and last very long ('til the tranny blows or when i convert to the e153). speaking for the GT tranny, i've read from spec's site that the stage 2 and 2+ will last longer but is for light-moderately modded vehicles. the stage 3 and 3+ (with better wear characteristic) is for heavy modded vehicles and "offers good wear characteristic" <-- meaning wont last as long? anyway what stage do u guys recommend? since i think my oem clutch may just crap out on me within a few months

also i jsut wunna add the GT tranny is holding damn good now for almost 8 months. goes into gear with no problem and i have no grinding problem. i got the tranny with 75k miles on it and feels as strong as it did 8 months ago right after my swap was completed im confident this tranny will last me 'til its time when i HAVE to upgrade to a stronger one

bboy

if you plan on getting an e-153 tranny, i would highly suggest that you get the gt-4 engine mount as soon as possible while your car is still running. Getting JDM mounts takes a while and your gonna hate having your car down for a long time needlessly.

[BBoYRuGGeD]

if you plan on getting an e-153 tranny, i would highly suggest that you get the gt-4 engine mount as soon as possible while your car is still running. Getting JDM mounts takes a while and your gonna hate having your car down for a long time needlessly.

yap i know about down-time and it sucks bigtime lol exactly when im planning to do the e153 conversion is decided on when i get these st205 mounts. i already have 2 of 'em i just need the other 2. also i dont plan on doing this until some serious performance boost and that wont be happening for awhile since this car is still my DD

bboy