swap or just turbo it?, what should i do? Options

[massbrandon]

allright i have a dillema? ive been looking around at some of the cars on this site and im in awe. i really want my car to be faster. ive seen people on here that do the swap and then on the other hand people just turbo it. what should i do.

[TheStreetzKing]

how about just swap it

[94STcoupeKyle]

it really depends on u, if u turbo say a 7a it can only be so fast! but lets say u do a swap the motor your putting in probably has alot more hp to start off with so i would go with a swap....

im about to swap a smallport 4age that i got shipped from japan.. me i would do the swap but if u just wanna go with a turbo thats kewl 2

[snapshotgt]

SWAP.

[j0e_p3t]

swap

[gtfc115]

swap for the win!

[massbrandon]

i would like to do the swap. thats what ive wanted to do for a while now. the thing is I dont know where to get it done. I would do it myself but i cant do anything like that. does anyone know where i can get this done and how much itll cost? and how hard is it for someone thats kinda mechanically inclined?

[LewFX]

manny lives near you

[celica47]

dude i am kinda in the same dilema also...BUt all the senior members swear by you doing your own swap. YEs it does help you learn about your car so you can fix it later, but since i dont know much ,i know the DOWN TIME of me learning to install a engine with a busy life would be to much you know without a car so...YOUR CALL BRO

[j0e_p3t]

if you don't know ish then don't try unless you got a pro helping you. its not really something you can do just by reading an instruction manual. and you don't wanna do something wrong and have your car blow up while driving or what-not.

[lagos]

if you don't know ish then don't try unless you got a pro helping you. its not really something you can do just by reading an instruction manual. and you don't wanna do something wrong and have your car blow up while driving or what-not.

you know, i dont really agree with that. i mean, who would know more about a 5sfTe or 3sgte swap then some of the people on this site? youll never find a "pro" that knows more then the people on this site. most of these mechanics will mess up your car worse then you can imagine.

my advice is to do alot of research. when the time comes, you will know whats right for you. whatever you do, make sure you DO YOUR OWN WORK on it. one of the best things about a 5sfTe or a 3sgte is what you will learn about you car in the process.

you should have seen me and manny trying to swap my car back in the day. we were total n00bs and now learned a ton of stuff about our cars in the process. if we can do it, so can you.

[massbrandon]

wheres the best place to get a 3sgte? ive seen them on ebay for 1200 plus shipping. are there any places that i should check on the web?

[j0e_p3t]

if you don't know ish then don't try unless you got a pro helping you. its not really something you can do just by reading an instruction manual. and you don't wanna do something wrong and have your car blow up while driving or what-not.

you know, i dont really agree with that. i mean, who would know more about a 5sfTe or 3sgte swap then some of the people on this site? youll never find a "pro" that knows more then the people on this site. most of these mechanics will mess up your car worse then you can imagine.

my advice is to do alot of research. when the time comes, you will know whats right for you. whatever you do, make sure you DO YOUR OWN WORK on it. one of the best things about a 5sfTe or a 3sgte is what you will learn about you car in the process.

you should have seen me and manny trying to swap my car back in the day. we were total n00bs and now learned a ton of stuff about our cars in the process. if we can do it, so can you.

when i said "pro"... i meant one of you guys. cuz you're right... who knows more about our cars than us? one day i hope to know as much as some of you pros on here.

This post has been edited by j0e_p3t: Apr 3, 2006 - 9:18 PM

[massbrandon]

i agree completely. also approx how long does the swap take?

[lagos]

i agree completely. also approx how long does the swap take?

a week, month or year. it all depends on you.

mine took 2 months.

[massbrandon]

2 months? why is that?

[lagos]

2 months? why is that?

best reply i can give you.... lol
http://www.celicatech.com/lagos/swap%20picture%20diary%2004/

[Batman722]

i agree completely. also approx how long does the swap take?

a week, month or year. it all depends on you.

mine took 2 months.

Art is correct, it all depends on how much research and preperation you do.

This post has been edited by Batman722: Apr 3, 2006 - 11:32 PM

[urbandork]

i agree completely. also approx how long does the swap take?

a week, month or year. it all depends on you.

mine took 2 months.

Art is correct, it all depends on how much research and preperation you do.

i agree i did my 5sfte in 3 days and chanh did his swap in 4 or 5 days and he hadnt even chaned his own oil piro.

I thought about it for some time and i may get flamed for this and while i say this it does not mean i may not swap later or think you shouldnt.

overveiw

5sfte
A lot more reseach then a 3s as well as way more tinkering with the car. Things that are a MUST for a 5sfte are gages a, timming system and a fuel control system all involved wiring. Things that you have to change are oil filter mounting, water and oil for the trubo, fuel pump, injectors, and head gasket (in that order from novice to advance stuff). Then after everything is on you have to tune it.

end result you work on ur engine and car way more then you would in a swap (imho) ... point and case would be replacing the headgasket. However combined with research and a chance for some hands on wrenching you really get a good amount of experience and know how under the hood as well as for ur car.

3sgte swap.
from what ive seen and read, both with mr2's and 6gc's one does not have to do as much work. The engine swaps right in. Wiring use to be a large problem but now with wiring harness made for the swap its mostly plug and play.

The engine was built for the trubo thus things that are a must for a 5sfte are not on a 3s. These things are things like oil filter mounting, water and oil for the trubo, injectors, and head gasket. Of course the fuel pump must be changed.

The 3s ecu takes care of fuel control and timing (as long as the 3s is left as it is) thus a fuel contorl and timing system is not a must. This is also true for the fuel injectors. These two factors allow someone to swap and engine in without understanding what an a/f ratio is and what it means, what size fuel injctors to use and why they are being used in relationship to the 5s ecu. It also does not force a person to understand how timming affect the engine.

(please dont flame if there something im mistaken on tell me)

The next thing to look at is power out put.

with a 5sfte, if done properly ur probably guna be looking at 180 to 200 whp with a ct26 if you go the route pressure2 (manny) went his dyno showed 210 whp i think

with a 2nd gen 3sgte they are around 200 whp. now im not sure if thats a number from an all wheel drive dyno or a front wheel drive dyno.

Then theres price

I spent 2200 total on my 5sfte this includes everything including exhaust, fmic, plumbing, electronics, injectors ect. 2200 is give or take what ur guna be looking to spend on a 2nd gen clip. Remember this does not include exhaust, fmic, or ic plumbing.

Now comparing everything the whole 5sfte cost about as much as a clip. Gain in power can be about the same as seen with mannys car (assuming the 200 whp from the 2nd gen 3s was from a fwd car). So whats the real diffrence....

.... it comes down to the fact that the 3sgte was built for the turbo. Thus it will be way more dependable but more then that its a stronger engine over all thus the 3s is capable of handling wayyy more power then a 5s when dealing with larger turbos and putting more pressure into the engine. Simply put the 5s can only do so much in its basic forms where as the 3s being a performance orientated engine is better suited for 250+ whp

The way i feel about it (once again imho please do not flame) you must ask ur self some questions.

What is ur power goal?
250 and above go with a 3s for sure

How dedicated are you in working on ur car? (pre and post turbo)
the 5sfte and its replacement of the head gasket involes removing the head obviously, but also cams as well as a lot of other thing such as the wiring harness around the plemuth (possibly the plemuth but i was able to keep mine on) Other engine work that is done on the 5sfte and not the 3s are fuel injectors and thus the fuel rail.

The swap is replacing the engine so theres a lot of unpluging repluging and unbolting and rebolting. Keeping trac of where everthing came off of is the hardest thing for the unorganized. However this i feel is a lot simpliar then taking the head. By all means this is an educational task (of pluging and bolting) but with the 5s and its head gasket you at least get to see the insides of the top end. This is something most ppl these days cant say where as pluging vac lines and sensors and unbolting trannies usually is.

Im sure theres more to mention but im tired and ill probably get flamed enough for all i said so away i go.

PS when my 5sfte kicks i do plan on a swap or a 5sgte build but i must say that i gained a lot of experience with the engine and its components doing the 5sfte first. I look at the 3sgte as jsut replacing an engine which is basically what it is. In the end the swap while a bit more expensive i feel is more reliable and a stronger engine but i cant deny all the know how i gained from the 5sfte.

This post has been edited by urbandork: Apr 4, 2006 - 2:57 AM

[x_itchy_b_x]

the 5sfe is like playing legos to me. you only need to bolt things on.
alot less work. imo. having done both
(twice on the 5sfte lol cause of my lack of money to afford a good turbo, i did my 5sfte setup before we had any major write-ups on it also, eveyhting i did was just a notion people had about the 5s over at celica.net),
weve learned alot more about the 5s and the proper way to turbo it also.
the 3sgte swap took alot longer.
and def worth it over the 5s in reliability/power and now i have a better platform for building more power down the line.

id say save your money and swap if you want a longer powerband and a motor designed with performance in mind.