3sge engines, just wondering? Options

[GT4WRC]

I'm looking at installing a 3SGE motor into my rally car and have no intention of going down the BEAMS or turbo route.
After some research, it appears that the Gen II is a better option if you want more power due to the smaller inlet ports on the head. Saying that, the plan is to completely rebuilld the engine with uprated everything and aim for a higher CR and a rev limit around 9k. I'll also be looking at a decent set of throttle bodies too (which will require some ingenious firewall modifications!) See no reason why a flywheel figure of around 230bhp should be achievable. And with a Quaife straight cut gear set, the @ wheels figure should be over 200 given the reduced transmission losses. Not to shabby in a 1000kg (approx 2200lb) car
Another reason for chosing the 3S motor is that due to it's 15 deg inclination, it will actually allow me to position the engine so that there is more weight directly over the front wheels and it will also give better weight distribution than most 4 pots. Just a shame that it doesn't have an alloy block. And before anyone says it, the 2ZZ motor won't fit as it is too long.
The 3SGE does have quite a lot of potential, especially if you throw a lot of $ at it. However, not everyone has a large budget so it's not surprising that people go down the BEAMS route for decent power straight out of the box. But for racing purposes, I'd rather have a heavily worked 3SGE than a BEAMS for the simple reason that there is less to go wrong.
Gary

[Silver94CelicaOw...]

Thanks BLADDER_MASTER for a great reply. I totally agree with what you said about N/A being better suited for FWD platforms though, I've been in and driven several really sweet N/A setups and I think i prefer that sort of motor over a turbo in a FWD. AWD tends to lend itself very well to the power output of a turbo and FWD to N/A for sure.

I appreciate all your help though, and I might be seriously looking into getting my hands on a 3rd gen 3SGE soon. Do you mind me asking how much you spent on your motor?

[BLADDER_MASTER]

However, not everyone has a large budget so it's not surprising that people go down the BEAMS route for decent power straight out of the box.

If thats the reason why people aren't going the non-BEAMS route, then they're stupid. Obviously they haven't done their homework. If they did, they would know that the 3rd gen 3S-GE would be cheaper to get and less hassle to install than a BEAMS 3S-GE. The installation part only applies to a 6GC GT of course. So what surprises me is how people are not going the non-BEAMS 3S-GE route. They complain that they want something better but they can't spend the money on a 3S-GTE or a BEAMS 3S-GE.

[BLADDER_MASTER]

Thanks BLADDER_MASTER for a great reply. I totally agree with what you said about N/A being better suited for FWD platforms though, I've been in and driven several really sweet N/A setups and I think i prefer that sort of motor over a turbo in a FWD. AWD tends to lend itself very well to the power output of a turbo and FWD to N/A for sure.

I appreciate all your help though, and I might be seriously looking into getting my hands on a 3rd gen 3SGE soon. Do you mind me asking how much you spent on your motor?

$650 to get the motor with everything needed to do the swap. That included engine, tranny, ecu, full un-cut wiring harness, and the extra accessories (a/c compressor, alternator, ps pump, etc.). Even though I paid that much by winning a bid on eBay, I looked around and I saw other 3S-GE's going around the same price range. One of these days I'll try to pass by the place I got my engine from and ask them how much he sells 3rd gen 3S-GE's for.

[GT4WRC]

However, not everyone has a large budget so it's not surprising that people go down the BEAMS route for decent power straight out of the box.

If thats the reason why people aren't going the non-BEAMS route, then they're stupid. Obviously they haven't done their homework. If they did, they would know that the 3rd gen 3S-GE would be cheaper to get and less hassle to install than a BEAMS 3S-GE.

You obviously haven't understood a word of what I said have you?

Sure, a 'standard' 3SGE motor is cheaper to buy than a BEAMS. But, a 3SGE makes less power out of the box and you need to start spending extra $ to get it up to the power level of a BEAMS. For that reason, a BEAMS conversion has the potential to work out cheaper in the end.
Gary

[BLADDER_MASTER]

However, not everyone has a large budget so it's not surprising that people go down the BEAMS route for decent power straight out of the box.

If thats the reason why people aren't going the non-BEAMS route, then they're stupid. Obviously they haven't done their homework. If they did, they would know that the 3rd gen 3S-GE would be cheaper to get and less hassle to install than a BEAMS 3S-GE.

You obviously haven't understood a word of what I said have you?

Sure, a 'standard' 3SGE motor is cheaper to buy than a BEAMS. But, a 3SGE makes less power out of the box and you need to start spending extra $ to get it up to the power level of a BEAMS. For that reason, a BEAMS conversion has the potential to work out cheaper in the end.
Gary

Oh, I get it now. My mistake. Sorry.

For me, the non-BEAMS 3S-GE came out to be cheaper since I wasn't planning on getting to the same level as the BEAMS.

This post has been edited by BLADDER_MASTER: Apr 17, 2006 - 9:59 AM

[Kwanza26]

You obviously haven't understood a word of what I said have you?

Sure, a 'standard' 3SGE motor is cheaper to buy than a BEAMS. But, a 3SGE makes less power out of the box and you need to start spending extra $ to get it up to the power level of a BEAMS. For that reason, a BEAMS conversion has the potential to work out cheaper in the end.
Gary

I'm a little late into this debate... but I'd argue the BEAMS isn't worth the extra grand or two. The major powermaker differences between the BEAMS and a 3rd gen 3SGE are quite small, so I would argue you can build a 3rd gen to meet and surpass the BEAMS for the price of simply throwing in a BEAMS. VVTi is overrated from a horsepower performance standpoint, cause if you're gonna tune upwards of 240+hp n/a anyway, chances are you're gonna want to manually tune the cam timing. From a mechanical standpoint... they are very very similar (pretty much the same)... the BEAMS only has slightly more compression and a different head. I still hate the intake manifolds on those 3SGE's... but based on your other topic... that doesn't matter anyways... =D

That pretty red valve cover is pretty neat though...

[blu94gt]

Since I've been making a lot of money with my new job, I've also been looking into doing a non-BEAMS 3sge swap. I had looked at buying a new car or another project or something, but have decided I would rather spend a few thousand on the Celica.

The 3sge would give me the NA power I want for driving every day without being very expensive or becoming a maintenance nightmare.

To the guy who said he got everything for $650, did that include shipping? That is a lot cheaper than I thought it would be.

I've been thinking that I want to get the engine and ECU etc off of ebay or something, then install it with my stock transmission, put in a new clutch at the time, and just keep everythign else in there stock.

What are you guys doing for exhaust?

[BLADDER_MASTER]

Since I've been making a lot of money with my new job, I've also been looking into doing a non-BEAMS 3sge swap. I had looked at buying a new car or another project or something, but have decided I would rather spend a few thousand on the Celica.

The 3sge would give me the NA power I want for driving every day without being very expensive or becoming a maintenance nightmare.

To the guy who said he got everything for $650, did that include shipping? That is a lot cheaper than I thought it would be.

I've been thinking that I want to get the engine and ECU etc off of ebay or something, then install it with my stock transmission, put in a new clutch at the time, and just keep everythign else in there stock.

What are you guys doing for exhaust?

I didn't have to pay for shipping because I picked up the engine myself. For exhaust I went custom.

[Predator]

how many horses do you think i can pick by having the head ported and polished ?