5sfte wisdom, turboed folks i want youre feedback! Options

[orvillescelica]

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**Optional personal info**
So about 3 months ago i graduated with my masters in Aerospace engineering and after a long search, i finally found a job where they throw money at me for doing cool stuff. So that handles the funding. With this new funding, i bought a house with its very own garage here in Seattle. Its only a one car garage, but its something. That handles the work space.

About two years ago i seriously looked into turboing the 5sfe. But as i was starting grad school, i neither had the money or workspace to actually do so. In addition, i saw all the 5sfte folks go toward the 3sgte swap way after their set up either failed or didnt give them the power they wanted. So then i researched that route, though not as serious. But times have changed and the things that kept me from a boosting source are no longer a problem. After looking at everything, i see that it is logistically impossible for me to do the 3s swap myself (so if you reply saying not to turbo and swap instead, please take into account the labor costs). So now i am revisiting the 5sfte route.

By no means do i consider myself a senior member, but i have been here since the begining, so all the topics on this site as well as many other sites conserning the 5sfte i have either read or written. I know all the parts needed, numbers, problem issues and concerns.
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**concerning question**

Since my serious research, i have still kept up with the topics on the 5sfte, but i might have missed things or perhaps the turbo folks may have done something they did not report. So what i would like to know is who has done what and if they were successful or if it failed. Specifically on the issues of:

-timing and fuel management (safc+msd btm combo or greddy emanage? why?)
-Fuel injectors (i think i recall reading that there were concerns that the supra green top injectors were not good enough. Please comment.)
-Gaskets (again i recall oil leak or burning issues, what gaskets have worked for you?)

Please add in any additional info that you think may prove useful (intercooler sizing and piping, boost control, coolant and oil piping, etc...). Additional speculation and debate is ok, but the most useful information will be if you have tried it. I only plan on boosting 5 psi, please take into account.

Thanks in advance for the help, and sorry for the super long post.
-Asher

[ice23q]

MUST have a standalone ems for the tune side of the thing for a start.

I used 4agze Red injectors, tube and fin intercooler with 3" pipe work. With this i ran it at 8-10psi....... BUT if your on good $$$$ for doing fun things.....dont mess about and build a 5sgte...

[Silver94CelicaOw...]

Speaking of the MSD BTM.....is Manny even using his anymore? From what i recall the unit kept retarding timing way too much around 4k upwards, so he disconnected it.....but I'd like somebody to confirm that.


Thats a good place to start by determining if thats true, and establishing how best to manage it all. I'm only aware of people running SAFCII and the MSD BTM, and of course the next step from there is full standalone.....but I'm curious also as to whats working best these days in the world of 5SFTE.

[presure2]

im not using the BTM anymore.
the car seemed to fall on its face right @ 4450rpm with any settings i used with the BTM.
as far as the SAFCII + BTM combo, i am really starting to think a much better investment would be somthing like the E-manage Ultimate, cause it can give you FAR greater control over things than the SAFCII and BTM could ever give you.
I'll be making a seperate post here in a couple days about it, i am planning on getting one here soon, and from the research that ive done, it should allow me to get a MUCH more solid and reliable tune.
as far as injectors, yes, the 315's have been proven IMO to be too small for our applications with the 2 bar map sensor.
we've found that rx-7 4600cc n/a injectors are plug and play (see my profile for the PT. #), and even tho they do tend to be rich at idle, id much rather have that, than lean under boost, where you really NEED the fuel.
and from the looks of things, i really think we could solve that problem with somthing like the emanage ultimate.
IMO the 'ultimate is the next logical step in the evolution of the 5sfte, before going full standalone, especially if you already own a laptop.
ive found it (the emanage ultimate) on ebay shipped for 550$ with all the harnesses included, which when you think about it, is basicly about 100$ more than what you pay new for the SAFCII and BTM combo. ( i paid 255$ and 200$ for both, respectivly.) with the more advanced features you get with the 'ultimate, its well worth the extra $$ in the long run IMO.
as far as gaskets,... anything that leaks now, or looks like it MAY leak in the near future, WILL leak when you boost. just keep that in mind.
i have a '98 motor in my car, ( i got it from lagos when he swapped, THANKS art!! hehe) that came with a metal headgasket stock, so i got lucky as far as that is concerned.
as far as running 5psi, you will not be able to do that on the ct-26, the stock wastegate actuator opens the wastegate @ 7psi.
good luck!

[lagos]

I only plan on boosting 5 psi, please take into account.

thats not possible, like manny said. plan on building your setup for 10psi. the wastegate is set at 7psi, but depending on your exhaust size or the weather, youll end up hitting somwhere around 10psi.

[civickiller]

If you only want 5psi then you might want to check this out.

http://www.poweredbytoyota.com/ssfeturbo.html

[presure2]

If you only want 5psi then you might want to check this out.

http://www.poweredbytoyota.com/ssfeturbo.html

that burien kit is WAY overpriced, and is way outdated, and will run at least 7psi if you use anything but a super restrictive exhaust.

[orvillescelica]

thanks guys, keep the info coming. 7 psi is fine if thats stock. i thought you could shorten the actuator on teh internal wastegate and get less, but now that i think about it, thats a lot of trouble. Besides, for regualr driving around, i probably wont be boosting high anyway.

yeah, the burien kit isnt for me. I know an MR2 guy that has it and loves it, but id much rather gather the parts slowly and clean them up myself.

ice23g, do you know what the flow rate is on those 4agze redtop injectors? If the supra 315 are too small and pressure2 is getting rich on the 460s, im sure there are some toyota 350s that are out there. The burien kit comes with 350s, and those are plug and play. I know the guy ot there at Burien Toyota, im sure i coudl ask him what they use.

[presure2]

the 350s theyre actually 360cc.. are still gonna be too small, you need somthing in the 400-440cc range.

[lagos]

when doing a project like this, its good to be on the ritch side. its a high comression NA motor, so the more fuel you have, the safer it will be.

how do you think your skills as an aerospace engineer will help you on a project like this?

[urbandork]

Manny is correct. on my 5sfte set up im running the btm and safc and still have trouble at the top end. Give the emanage a try and c how that goes it should prove to be a far better method to tune the car.

I still have some playing around to do with my btm and safc combo but probably will come up with the same results a manny.

as for injectors im running 42 pound bosch injectors which is roughly around 441cc and i ahvnt had any trouble with them.

also remember to get a larger fuel pump.

my 5sfte has been running under 11 pounds with no trouble so far.

[Hanyo]

I'm don’t know much about the 5sfte set-up, but I would like to point out that orvillescelica has a 97 OBDII ecu. I know on the 7afe OBDII, the ecu controls the timing; so if you tune with a safc unit the ecu will not be able to control the timing appropriately. Does the OBDII ecu on the 5sfe do the same thing?

[presure2]

I'm don’t know much about the 5sfte set-up, but I would like to point out that orvillescelica has a 97 OBDII ecu. I know on the 7afe OBDII, the ecu controls the timing; so if you tune with a safc unit the ecu will not be able to control the timing appropriately. Does the OBDII ecu on the 5sfe do the same thing?

it doesnt matter.
the only diffrence the obdII have as far as timing is that they are not adjustable at the distributor.
the way the ecu controls timing is the same, basicly.
the 96+ ecu also has cam and crank angle sensors, which the earlier ones do not, they get the crank and cam angle from the distributor.

[orvillescelica]

how do you think your skills as an aerospace engineer will help you on a project like this?

Well, adding a turbo to a combustion engine basically turns it into the same heat cycle as a jet engine, and air breathing engines were actually my focus in grad school. But then again, anything below Mach 3 in my eyes seems slow from what i was studying.

Though i might understand the pressurization, thermal cycles and stresses a bit better than most; since i have never put a turbo on an NA engine before... the short answer is, it probably wont help at all.

Then again, my expereince as a "lab slave" for two years in grad school building a wind tunnel will probably come in handy as thats when i learned to machine custom parts, install gauges, work with pumps, plumping, etc...

[shin]

my setup's almost the same like manny other than the ct27, 3" dp and exhaust. but haven't had any problems with it from day i installed it. i didn't install the BTM and till today no problems with it even @ 12lbs of boost. eager to see how much better the emanage ultimate would be to tune. oh.. remember to dyno tune it when done.