My Emanage Ultimate experience, 5sfte + emanage ultimate = ??? lets find out! Options

[presure2]

Hey all,
So, I've finally made my decision about what to do with the 5sfte, and ways to improve it, and as we all know one of the main areas that we're lacking is tuning, or lack there of, I should say! haha..
Anyway, I've been doing some research on the various piggybacks out there, and I've decided to go ahead and try the Greddy Emanage Ultimate.
I'm gonna try and make this thread somewhat like my turbo thread, with lots of pictures and info, spread out over the whole experience from beginning to end.
So, with that in mind, let me just go over a few things before I really start in with the 'Ultimate stuff.
For those who havent seen the thread yet, or are new to the board, heres a link to my turbo thread.
Click for my 5SFTE post
That pretty much covers my particular setup, and what I've done with it to date.
Just for the record, the car is driven daily, and NOT babied at all.
That being said, as crazy as it may sound, I really DO believe there is more in it, and fairly reliably as well.
Since the install last June, I've learned tons about how this thing we call the 5SFTE really works, why it does what it does, and I'm still learning tons and tons more about it everyday.
I really cannot stress how important it is to try and learn as much as possible about your particular setup, what does and doesnt work, and why it does what it does.
I think one of the main issues we need to look at is how the stock N/A ECU applies timing VS' say a stock 3SGTE ecu, which is one of our big hurdles when it comes to tuning, and IMO one of the main reasons alot of guys loose the 5sfte battle...lol
I've noticed during my dyno runs, when i had the BTM installed, that the ECU REALLY seemed to be pulling ALOT of timing, right at 4450RPM, as you can see in this dyno run:

At first i thought it may have somthing to do with the BTM, so I played with it some, and it seemed the more I turned it down, the less it seemed to pull back, so I finally got to the point where it was totally @ 0, and I removed it.
Although i could still feel it pulling timing, it was ALOT better without the BTM, and here is my theory why: (this is JUST A THEORY, I AM NOT SAYING THIS IS WITHOUT A DOUBT WHATS HAPPENING, keep that in mind.
the factory ECU has timing maps that are set for N/A operation. at the torque peak, there is just too much timing in the factory map for the amount of boost im trying to run, on pump gas. by the time the ecu reacts, im hitting the knock sensor, causing the ecu to pull out timing, and that coupled with the timing already being pulled by the BTM ( im WAY into full boost by then..lol) just makes the whole thing worse.
I really think that with the features of the Emanage ultimate, I'll be able to totally solve that issue, and really improve my tune all around.
First thing I've done, is head right over to www.greddy.com , and downloaded the installation and operation manuals from there.
Once I did a little reading, I noticed some really cool features that I thing will REALLY help us get a MUCH improved tune on our 5SFTE's.
heres a screenshot of some of the features it has:



cool stuff.
I'll keep updating this post over the next couple of days with lots more info and stuff..
for now,
DISCUSS!!

[x_itchy_b_x]

i played with an emanage the tunning on those things is sweeet. if u want some help give me a holla.

[AllTrac96]

with that ripp kit that i got i am going to sell that SAFC II and buy an emanage ultimate. if im going to do it right im going to do it right the first time. i have heard a lot of good things about it and its only like 550 with teh harness on ebay. keep us update presure im interested to see what more you get out of the 5s!

This post has been edited by AllTrac96: May 16, 2006 - 3:26 PM

[Silver94CelicaOw...]

Awesome post Manny. I can't wait to see how far this thing can go, its a great learning experience for all of us seeing your car progress.

[shin]

i would like to know more bout this emanage ultimate too. good stuff manny

[madmods]

I'm right behind you also Manny. Your alot more gifted tuner then I'll ever be, so I look forward to any info
you post.

[presure2]

Your alot more gifted tuner then I'll ever be, so I look forward to any info
you post.

haha...thanks man...but i am NO tuner...lmao
im just a regular guy, like everyone else on here, learning as i go.=)

[OOBE]

Good stuff, man. It's gonna be great!

[presure2]

heres a screenshot of what the operational maps look like, i have displayed the 3 maps ill prolly use the most of.

the injector map, which to me is gonna be the biggest single improvment over the safc, because it allows the ability to add or trim fuel independant of airflow(in other words, no timing compensation!)
the ignition map, which will allow me to manipulate timing.
and a really cool feature, the Air intake tempature compensation map. this feature will allow me to compensate with more fuel as the intake air temp rises. great stuff for us, especially on those hotter days, on hard boost runs where the intercooler is becoming less and less effective.
there are quite a few other maps available, as you can see in the box to the left.
individual cylinder adjustment, acceleration adjustment, as well as airflow adjustment maps are all available,
good stuff IMO, just a matter of learning and applying.

[CilverSeliST205]

Are you going to shell out some money for wideband 02 ? or just use intuition and egt that you already have? (imo not a good idea)... Or do you have a cheap hook up on a dynamometer ? Good luck with tuning! hope you get your money's worth from emanage... then i will buy one too

[presure2]

Are you going to shell out some money for wideband 02 ? or just use intuition and egt that you already have? (imo not a good idea)... Or do you have a cheap hook up on a dynamometer ? Good luck with tuning! hope you get your money's worth from emanage... then i will buy one too

yes, i do plan on getting a wideband, once the unit is in and running.
i do all my tuning now on the local dynojet (the local guy is pretty cheap @ 60$ per hr)
all off boost and partial boost tuning will be done once the wideband is installed.

[97sccelica]

looks awesome.

if i ever turbo the celica again, im definately going with a emanage(or something else that controls fuel and timing like an smt6 or split second)

AEM EMS is comming for the WRX

i love tuning. it gets the most power, and its the cleanest part of working on cars.

[OOBE]

For wideband, I recommend an LM-1...very nice for the price. My buddy is using mine in his Mirage, since I don't need it right now, LOL. It's cool...has a breakout box and you can hook-up other sensors to it and datalog from them to your laptop.

[CilverSeliST205]

Bump! How is the tuning going ? Any useful features discovered? how hard was the wiring of emanage? oh and more screenshots please

[presure2]

Bump! How is the tuning going ? Any useful features discovered? how hard was the wiring of emanage? oh and more screenshots please

i dont actually HAVE it yet...this is just the beginning of the reserch before i buy it...lol
people ask why my setup is the way it is....this is why...when i think about buying somthing, i research it FEVERISHLY...lol
ill be posting more and more..as i learn more about it.
i already have a wiring diagram "cheat sheet" like i made up for the SAFCII install, i just wont post it till i actually install it, so that i can make sure it works, and make any nessicary changes if need be.

[presure2]

Are you going to shell out some money for wideband 02 ? or just use intuition and egt that you already have? (imo not a good idea)... Or do you have a cheap hook up on a dynamometer ? Good luck with tuning! hope you get your money's worth from emanage... then i will buy one too

another note on this:

another really cool feature of the 'ultimate, is that once you do have the wideband, it has a map called "A/F Target".
what you do is input what you want your Air/Fuel Ratio to be at a given RPM 'VS Airflow, and the emanage will input the correction needed itself, to get to your target a/f ratio.
here is a screenshot of what that looks like, with a dummy map i setup, just to give you an idea of what the map looks like filled out.
these #s in the map ARE NOT my settings for this map, it is only an example.

it looks like a lot of info to input, but using the interpolate feature, i made this map in about 5-10 minutes.
here is a cpoy/paste from the manual about it:

A/F Target Map
• This map is used to automatically program the selected map (in the “A/F Taget” section in the
parameter) with the inputed A/F values.
• This feature will monitor the A/F sensor that is connected to the “OPTION” port and confiured in
the “”Front Panel” and make the proper adjustment to the selected map to achieve the inputed
air/fuel ratio.
(How to set)
• Input the A/F target value for the corresponding load and rpm points.
* Be sure to input “-” in the area where factory ecu is in the closed loop (ecu monitoring and
correcting by monitoring the factory O2 sensor signal).
* While the ecu is in closed loop, ecu will continuously adjust the ari/fuel ratio between 14~15.
During this time, A/F Target map feature will not function propelly since the ecu is making
adjustments.
* To force the ecu to go in to Open Loop, “Auxiliary Output Map” can be used.

more good stuff!

[CilverSeliST205]

Good stuff! Looks like Ultimate is there half way between a piggyback and ems, with all these features... I was wondering how does emanage adjusts injection and timing? which signals does it intercept and modify? Is it wired directly to the injectors?

[presure2]

Good stuff! Looks like Ultimate is there half way between a piggyback and ems, with all these features... I was wondering how does emanage adjusts injection and timing? which signals does it intercept and modify? Is it wired directly to the injectors?

it intercepts the injectors directly, and you can adjust them independantly of timing, or you can adjust airflow (like the SAFC),
it intercepts the NE and IGF signals for crank and cam signals, and allows you to adjust timing thru that.

[lagos]

another really cool feature of the 'ultimate, is that once you do have the wideband, it has a map called "A/F Target".

thats the sh1t ! emanage really is worlds apart from an safc/btm setup

[Defgeph]

Manny, excellent work with all the research you are doing. We are learning right along with you man I can't wait till you get this set up. You will again open up a new set of doors for our community.

This is a perfect example of what proper research can do. I'm really liking this setup, I see you having many sleepless nights tuning like a mad scientist. The E-Manage is gonna have wings.

Good stuff man