im a turbo noob, 5sgte? head work? what to do Options

[b1gr3d]

ok i am planning to turbo my 5sfe, my problem is what to do?!!

1. should i just buy 3sgte manifold with ct26 and all of the needed parts ( i read the posts about it and i'm sure you have too so no need to list ALL of the parts)

2.get head work done to my 5s head for a gasket match and port/ polish then do #1

3. buy a 3sgte head and match it to my 5s block, then do step #1
questions about #3 (DON'T FLAME ME)
CAN it be done w/o going to a machine shop? can it be done w/o replacing and internals from the block?
4. i was wanting to know if a t3 turbo would put out the same numbers as a ct26...simply becuase every other car in the world uses t3 or t4..why can't i?
-if i go with step 4 then of course i will port/polish and gasket match and posibly have the head milled just to have it level

the numbers i want to try to achieve are simple..over 200..psi.-under 15...maybe 12. this will be a daily driver so cost is low and down time is lower. i can do nearly anything, and i am going to wyotech in July, so i have no fear of fabrication...i only fear price and damage to my dear celi....

thanks for the help ahead of time and be gentle. i would also like to gain enough info on this thread to use it as a sticky for other users

If i can i would also like to out do pressure 2 in HP numbers for 5s block(yeah i know i may use 3g head but still)

[b1gr3d]

just found this post on mr2oc http://www.mr2oc.com/showthread.php?t=864 am wondering if this is all i need to do? if so then i am gonna get the head and do it to it. i was wondering though about drilling the jackets out...how deep do i need to go?

[lagos]

your way in over your head. using a 3s head with a 5s block is not for the average person wanting to turbo their 5sfe.

do option 1 and thats it. spend your money on a good piggy back or stand alone ecu if you want things to run well.

if you start getting any type of headwork done, swap a 3s head on a 5s block or crack into the motor in any way, then you might as well just spend your money on a 3sgte swap. less hassle.

[b1gr3d]

so best bet is #1....would a gasket match help significantly with that? i will do it myself, so the cost is maybe a head gasket, but that is reccomended anyway

[b1gr3d]

would a t3 be a good substitue for a ct26?

[burneeed]

you sound way over your head. Take a step back and do some research. Its not fun when you buy parts for your car and get bad dyno results or things dont work and you spend more money than you plan to spend.

btw how much is yuor budget?

1.) Yes read pressure2s swap on the sticky Forced induction page.
2.) You really dont need to do that.
3.) Good luck it can be done but its not easy. Theres a huge thread on it over at mr2oc. ATS Makes a stroker kit for it with the 5s bottom end that works perfect with the 3s head. But Im not sure if your looking to spend that kind of money.
4.) 15psi is a little much on a motor that doesnt have good internals to run boost... good luck because your going to need it. Or a really really really good tune.
5.) do a 3sgte swap youll be much happier in the end.

btw Pressure 2 is the 5s turbo master. Your better off going for another record

This post has been edited by burneeed: Jun 5, 2006 - 12:06 AM

[presure2]

ok i am planning to turbo my 5sfe, my problem is what to do?!!

1. should i just buy 3sgte manifold with ct26 and all of the needed parts ( i read the posts about it and i'm sure you have too so no need to list ALL of the parts)

2.get head work done to my 5s head for a gasket match and port/ polish then do #1

3. buy a 3sgte head and match it to my 5s block, then do step #1
questions about #3 (DON'T FLAME ME)
CAN it be done w/o going to a machine shop? can it be done w/o replacing and internals from the block?
4. i was wanting to know if a t3 turbo would put out the same numbers as a ct26...simply becuase every other car in the world uses t3 or t4..why can't i?
-if i go with step 4 then of course i will port/polish and gasket match and posibly have the head milled just to have it level

the numbers i want to try to achieve are simple..over 200..psi.-under 15...maybe 12. this will be a daily driver so cost is low and down time is lower. i can do nearly anything, and i am going to wyotech in July, so i have no fear of fabrication...i only fear price and damage to my dear celi....

thanks for the help ahead of time and be gentle. i would also like to gain enough info on this thread to use it as a sticky for other users

If i can i would also like to out do pressure 2 in HP numbers for 5s block(yeah i know i may use 3g head but still)

do #1.
trying to outdo my #s for a 5s block is kinda pointless, there are guys over on mr2oc that are WELL over 500whp on a 5s block, and 400+whp is common.

[b1gr3d]

do #1.
trying to outdo my #s for a 5s block is kinda pointless, there are guys over on mr2oc that are WELL over 500whp on a 5s block, and 400+whp is common.

i recently joind the mr2oc just so i can get their secrets. yeah they are getting some amazing numbers that i why i have opted to try and squeeze out the power from the 5s.
the reason i ask all of these questions is becuase i want the opinions of people that have done it and want to know which option is wiorth the trouble/money.

burneeed- i have did research but i am asking this community which direction i should go for best/easier results

as for the boost numbers....ive seen other peopel going for 20lbs so i figured this was a conservative max being 12lbs. the hp numbers, i know i wont get them immediatly and they wont come fast. but i want parts that will allow me to get their with upgrades through time. for instance.....i dont want to buy a 3sgte intake manifold if i can get an aftermarkt manifold that gives me more power if i go up 2 more psi...stuff like that

budget is small but i am going to compile parts over the next year or so. if its used i dont care. if it needs to be welded i dont care. if it needs refinished i dont care. if it needs fabrication i enjoy it. if it needs electical....i might have someone else do it because i hate wiring

i may be in over my head but you have to learn how to swim somehow

This post has been edited by b1gr3d: Jun 5, 2006 - 11:17 AM

[lagos]

no offence .... but you really need to do some more reading. it seems like right now you are just quoting things you have read, but you dont have a solid understanding of how these parts work togher. if you jump into things now, youll just blow your money on things that are useless and regret it later.

[Kadett]

To quote Blade:

"Some motherf*&&%s are always trying to iceskate uphill"

Why would you want to do it the hard way with all the complications. BTW you are reading stuff on the mr2 forums but have you considered the fact that even if you get high figures you will have 1 slight problem. The Celica is a FWD car so there is no point in getting above 300ish bhp. What Manny has done to his car is great but that wasn't done overnight.

Like burneed said. I would go for number 5: Do a 3S-GTE swap instead!

This post has been edited by Kadett: Jun 5, 2006 - 11:47 AM

[presure2]

do #1.
trying to outdo my #s for a 5s block is kinda pointless, there are guys over on mr2oc that are WELL over 500whp on a 5s block, and 400+whp is common.

i recently joind the mr2oc just so i can get their secrets. yeah they are getting some amazing numbers that i why i have opted to try and squeeze out the power from the 5s.
the reason i ask all of these questions is becuase i want the opinions of people that have done it and want to know which option is wiorth the trouble/money.

burneeed- i have did research but i am asking this community which direction i should go for best/easier results

as for the boost numbers....ive seen other peopel going for 20lbs so i figured this was a conservative max being 12lbs. the hp numbers, i know i wont get them immediatly and they wont come fast. but i want parts that will allow me to get their with upgrades through time. for instance.....i dont want to buy a 3sgte intake manifold if i can get an aftermarkt manifold that gives me more power if i go up 2 more psi...stuff like that

budget is small but i am going to compile parts over the next year or so. if its used i dont care. if it needs to be welded i dont care. if it needs refinished i dont care. if it needs fabrication i enjoy it. if it needs electical....i might have someone else do it because i hate wiring

i may be in over my head but you have to learn how to swim somehow

the problem is that you wont be "squeezing" power out of the 5s, with a 3s head.
it effectivly becomes a stroker 3sgte, since to run it, you at the minimum need the 3s ecu, and you wont get the most out of it without some form of real EMS.
and, if you have "budget" and 5sgte in the same sentence, you are very misinformed.
building a stroker is NOT cheap.
there is no way around it.
unless you have the 3s head, harness, ecu, capability to do the wiring, engine work, tuning and everything else thats involved in it, yourself. and even then, your STILL not looking at a "budget" project.
just the EMS and tuning involved your looking at 2k+.

[playr158]

To quote Blade:

"Some motherf*&&%s are always trying to iceskate uphill"

Why would you want to do it the hard way with all the complications. BTW you are reading stuff on the mr2 forums but have you considered the fact that even if you get high figures you will have 1 slight problem. The Celica is a FWD car so there is no point in getting above 300ish bhp. What Manny has done to his car is great but that wasn't done overnight.

Like burneed said. I would go for number 5: Do a 3S-GTE swap instead!

ok really even with my project i'm shooting for well over 300...300whp in a FWD isn't that big of a deal..i know of many FWD cars well over 300hp that are doing fine and they seam to have found a very very good point of being at over 300hp...the box is bigger then wat you can see

[b1gr3d]

[quote name='Kadett' date='Jun 5, 2006 - 10:46 AM' post='441235']
To quote Blade:

"Some motherf*&&%s are always trying to iceskate uphill"

Why would you want to do it the hard way with all the complications. BTW you are reading stuff on the mr2 forums but have you considered the fact that even if you get high figures you will have 1 slight problem. The Celica is a FWD car so there is no point in getting above 300ish bhp. What Manny has done to his car is great but that wasn't done overnight.

Like burneed said. I would go for number 5: Do a 3S-GTE swap instead!
[/quote]

If i have a budget for the 5s then how would i have the moeny for a 3sgte, and downtime for my car? People run integras and everything else in the world with over 300hp--also i said i want over 200..like 215 or 220, NOT an obserd amount over 200. what he did wasnt over night but i can also read what he has done to his car and learn / use it on mine instead of doing it the hard way and making mistakes

[quote name='presure2' date='Jun 5, 2006 - 1:04 PM' post='441289']
[quote name='b1gr3d' post='441223' date='Jun 5, 2006 - 12:17 PM']
[quote name='presure2' post='441174' date='Jun 5, 2006 - 5:29 AM']
do #1.
trying to outdo my #s for a 5s block is kinda pointless, there are guys over on mr2oc that are WELL over 500whp on a 5s block, and 400+whp is common.
[/quote]


the problem is that you wont be "squeezing" power out of the 5s, with a 3s head.
it effectivly becomes a stroker 3sgte, since to run it, you at the minimum need the 3s ecu, and you wont get the most out of it without some form of real EMS.
and, if you have "budget" and 5sgte in the same sentence, you are very misinformed.
building a stroker is NOT cheap.
there is no way around it.
unless you have the 3s head, harness, ecu, capability to do the wiring, engine work, tuning and everything else thats involved in it, yourself. and even then, your STILL not looking at a "budget" project.
just the EMS and tuning involved your looking at 2k+.
[/quote]

Well the 3s head is out of the question if it going to cost that much because everyone that has even mentioned a 3s head has said that i might as well do a swap which is not in the cards right now.




I am going to build my 5sfte regardless of what anyone says on here because if mr guys and pressure2 can do it then why can't i? You might not think that i "understand" how these things work but I know you all do and that is why I ask you. I am not going to order or buy any of these parts right now so I have time to figure out what i am going to do.

[b1gr3d]

also if i do achieve over the "maximum FWD power" I will convert to AWD. yeah i konw i will have to cut, weld, fabricate and everythign else to get it to fit in a FWD but by the time i get close to that much power i will be out of school and making over 100k a year doing fab work...i'm not some cocky kid TRYING to do this. i am a confident, capable kid that is going to do this one way or another

[CheesyLobster]

also if i do achieve over the "maximum FWD power" I will convert to AWD. yeah i konw i will have to cut, weld, fabricate and everythign else to get it to fit in a FWD but by the time i get close to that much power i will be out of school and making over 100k a year doing fab work...i'm not some cocky kid TRYING to do this. i am a confident, capable kid that is going to do this one way or another

lol, sorry but you sound pretty damn cocky in saying just that. People here are trying to help you, so don't get offended if we tell you that the stuff that you are saying doesn't make sense or is impractical. You need to learn as much as you can about 5sftes before you try to do one yourself. Some notes from a post 7afte driver...

1.) You could use the t3/4 if you wanted to but you would need a custom flange/manifold. For this reason most people just use the ct26.
2.) Even if you can convert to awd, the money that you would put into that is really impractical, plus it has only been done twice in the world that I know of, so you are pretty much on your own in that reguard.
3.) You could run 12psi without upgraded internals, but don't expect your engine to run for more than a year or so before a head gasket blows, or worse. just because some engines run at 20psi doesn't mean that ours can. a 5sfte @ 20 psi would probably blow a hole in the block after a while, even with upgraded internals.
4.) If you are so confident in your knowlege dispite what a dozen of experienced people are telling you, then do whatever you want and prove us all wrong. go ahead and make that 5sgte.

We aren't trying to flame, we are trying not to bs you. you cetainly can build a 5sfte, no one is telling you that you can't, but you need to learn more for your own good. look at past posts and see what others did, many 5sftes are well documented. good luck.

This post has been edited by CheesyLobster: Jun 5, 2006 - 8:22 PM

[frosty]

In your research, look for a guy named "wraith" on other mr2 forums.

[b1gr3d]

lol, sorry but you sound pretty damn cocky in saying just that. People here are trying to help you, so don't get offended if we tell you that the stuff that you are saying doesn't make sense or is impractical. You need to learn as much as you can about 5sftes before you try to do one yourself. Some notes from a post 7afte driver...

1.) You could use the t3/4 if you wanted to but you would need a custom flange/manifold. For this reason most people just use the ct26.
2.) Even if you can convert to awd, the money that you would put into that is really impractical, plus it has only been done twice in the world that I know of, so you are pretty much on your own in that reguard.
3.) You could run 12psi without upgraded internals, but don't expect your engine to run for more than a year or so before a head gasket blows, or worse. just because some engines run at 20psi doesn't mean that ours can. a 5sfte @ 20 psi would probably blow a hole in the block after a while, even with upgraded internals.
4.) If you are so confident in your knowlege dispite what a dozen of experienced people are telling you, then do whatever you want and prove us all wrong. go ahead and make that 5sgte.

We aren't trying to flame, we are trying not to bs you. you cetainly can build a 5sfte, no one is telling you that you can't, but you need to learn more for your own good. look at past posts and see what others did, many 5sftes are well documented. good luck.

i konw it might seem that way but i was pissed off at the time. i know everyone here knows more than me about the subject and i have taken it all in consideration. but all i wanted were some answers and i got was peopel saying you're way over your head and tat wont work. YOUR reply on the other hand answers questions that i have been asking for a while now and i thank you