3SGTE tuned up VS. Civic Single Cam Turboed, i know we talked about these situation b4, but i just gotta confirm wi Options

[chacha]

my friend was braggin' how great his car is and that his tuner was able to push 450 WHP on his 1995 Honda Civic, ported his engine from top to bottom and has a T3 turbo on it...piston and crank as well as all the comparments in the engine was literally changed for performance...i told him about the 3SGTE for our cars and he laughed...never heard of the GT4, but laugh and said his car will run 0-60 in 3 or 4 sec high, i forget...but he will beat the SH*T out of our cars (tuned 3SGTE engines) can this be true? a 450WHP civic single cam beating a dual cam 3SGTE?

This post has been edited by chacha: Aug 2, 2006 - 11:32 AM

[dustin15brown]

threads like this last around 10 mins....

[Culpable04]

450 whp on a FWD car ?? how does he do it ? I mean does he really get to drive it ? or better does he really have that power ? I know people start having traction issues on FWD cars most like around 260 or so depending on the tranny. so even with LSD I don't think FWD cars are meant to have that much power, at least not for street driving.

people here will correct me. they do it everytime I say something nonsence.

This post has been edited by Culpable04: Aug 2, 2006 - 11:41 AM

[jdg371]

threads like this last around 10 mins....

x2

- yes its true, there are plenty of High HP hondas out there..just look at drag races. youll see sohc civics runs some good #s. Hondas are cheaper to make fast! their aftermarket support is outstanding. They also have companies that will produce products to help with their traction issues

[playr158]

honestly your just going off the "ulmighty 3sgte" bandwagon kid...

the 3sgte is a great motor with potential but there are easily tons of SOHC boosted civics that will walk a celica with a 3sgte...
SOHC or DOHC isn't going to make a huge difference and is pretty much negatable for this discussion

and don't be narrow minded and limit yourself to thinking only 200whp or less FWD cars can catch traction....there is a 500whp SRT4 that will get perfect traction all day long...there is a 500whp sentra thats an aquaintence of mine that runs fine too....traction is limited by funds and knowledge....not by HP....

so don't think that just because its FWD traction is useless and that nothing else is faster then a 3sgte cause there are PLENTY of high HP hondas and others that will walk you

[jgreening]

traction is limited by funds and knowledge....not by HP....

I disagree with this statement.

[lagos]

take the same amount of money as your friend spent on building up his civic, and dump it into your celica. then go race and find out who is faster.

[playr158]

why do you disagree?

things that fall under traction

suspension
wheels
tires
transmission/clutch
tuning

are all factors of traction

tires....slicks cost money...even a set of BFGs cost some money..

traction on street tires vs street slicks vs full slicks..tire pressure setup
tranny...LSD or non LSD....and how its geared...condition and strength of your clutch..
suspension set up correctly...traction bars ect..
wheels...are you using 14s or 18s...it makes a difference
tuning... gear/rpm dependant boost control...? turbo spool setup...ect..

tuning takes knowledge...parts cost money
how to use it all together to take best advantage requires knowledge of all aspects

hence why there are 500whp srt4s that don't spin off the line....but there are 220whp celicas that do burn outs

This post has been edited by playr158: Aug 2, 2006 - 1:23 PM

[chacha]

i was amazed when i saw the dyno on the car...but i couldn't really believe on the sohc, it can produced that much...he spent over 10k on it, so...i guess it can be achieve with money...i just thought i ask...even though it seemed corny to ask in the first place...i was really hoping the 3SGTE can really kill that damn civic...i don't like hondas too much ^_- thanks for all ya'll inputs, guess i just have to accept his honda is quick!

[lagos]

dan, what your talking about is a race car with unlimited budget. i think jay was talking more along the lines of a realistic street car. not something thats going to drive around on slicks with wheelie bars and a parachute

i was amazed when i saw the dyno on the car...but i couldn't really believe on the sohc, it can produced that much...he spent over 10k on it, so...i guess it can be achieve with money...i just thought i ask...even though it seemed corny to ask in the first place...i was really hoping the 3SGTE can really kill that damn civic...i don't like hondas too much ^_- thanks for all ya'll inputs, guess i just have to accept his honda is quick!

spend 10k on your car. im sure you would beat him without any problem.

This post has been edited by lagos: Aug 2, 2006 - 1:24 PM

[playr158]

dan, what your talking about is a race car with unlimited budget. i think jay was talking more along the lines of a realistic street car. not something thats going to drive around on slicks with wheelie bars and a parachute

i was amazed when i saw the dyno on the car...but i couldn't really believe on the sohc, it can produced that much...he spent over 10k on it, so...i guess it can be achieve with money...i just thought i ask...even though it seemed corny to ask in the first place...i was really hoping the 3SGTE can really kill that damn civic...i don't like hondas too much ^_- thanks for all ya'll inputs, guess i just have to accept his honda is quick!

spend 10k on your car. im sure you would beat him without any problem.

my friend is running an MR2 on BFGs and has great traction...
the SRT4 is runing an apexi AVCR i think
TC is running BFGs
sentra is runing an EMS with dot slicks

all are near or over 300whp and no traction complaints
i'm not talking about an unlimited budget....its just called spending wisely on the right things
and i don't believe i ever said you had to run slicks and a chute...

[jgreening]

dan, what your talking about is a race car with unlimited budget. i think jay was talking more along the lines of a realistic street car. not something thats going to drive around on slicks with wheelie bars and a parachute

i was amazed when i saw the dyno on the car...but i couldn't really believe on the sohc, it can produced that much...he spent over 10k on it, so...i guess it can be achieve with money...i just thought i ask...even though it seemed corny to ask in the first place...i was really hoping the 3SGTE can really kill that damn civic...i don't like hondas too much ^_- thanks for all ya'll inputs, guess i just have to accept his honda is quick!

spend 10k on your car. im sure you would beat him without any problem.

my friend is running an MR2 on BFGs and has great traction...

Last time I checked, an MR2 is RWD.

As for why I disagree, I never said that traction could not be improved. However, if you say your buddy with SRT4 has 500whp and no traction issues, I call a BIG BS! The physics in a FWD car just lends itself to traction problems.

This post has been edited by jgreening: Aug 2, 2006 - 1:50 PM

[playr158]

(in reference to an AVC-R) completely program it for traction by gear and RPM...... My car can be launched in first gear with almost ZERO wheelspin with the gas pedal on the floor, when I hit second the tires chirp and immediately the car starts pulling all the way to third gear without wheelspin while the gas pedal is still mashed to the floor , when third is hit the tires barely chirp while the boost climbs progressively until full boost is hit shortly after hitting third gear ..... and this is with north of 500 whp

(this isn't someone i know)...but like i said with proper parts and the knowledge of how to tune..in this example boost controll via RPM and gear...traction is tuned

This post has been edited by playr158: Aug 2, 2006 - 1:46 PM

[jgreening]

(in reference to an AVC-R) completely program it for traction by gear and RPM...... My car can be launched in first gear with almost ZERO wheelspin with the gas pedal on the floor, when I hit second the tires chirp and immediately the car starts pulling all the way to third gear without wheelspin while the gas pedal is still mashed to the floor , when third is hit the tires barely chirp while the boost climbs progressively until full boost is hit shortly after hitting third gear ..... and this is with north of 500 whp

(this isn't someone i know)...but like i said with proper parts and the knowledge of how to tune..in this example boost controll via RPM and gear...traction is tuned

Thanks for proving my point. The car is DETUNED from those high horsepower numbers in lower gears to avoid traction problems.

[playr158]

i wouldn't consider rpm/gear dependant boost control detuning...
but if you want to thats ok too....
i would consider that proper tuning..as well as hp levels are taken on 3rd or 4th gear dyno runs....
which is were he stated full boost comes in (3rd gear) so i don't see how its "detuned from 500hp" in 1st and 2nd..cause it doesn't make it there no matter wat...

This post has been edited by playr158: Aug 2, 2006 - 1:54 PM

[jgreening]

i wouldn't consider rpm/gear dependant boost control detuning...
but if you want to thats ok too....
i would consider that proper tuning..

Its similar to taking your foot off the gas to avoid wheel spin. All you are doing is lessening the output of horsepower to maintain traction. So your buddies SRT4 with 500+ horsepower is really only a 250whp car when traction is an issue.

BTW, I happen to think that gear and RPM dependent boost control is a GREAT thing for all high horsepower turbo applications - particularly FWD. It allows the user to utilize the high horsepower later to go like a bat out of hell once he reaches 60mph. Lets not kid ourselves though into thinking that the car is utilizing 500hp as long as the boost controller is holding her back.

[playr158]

lol i'm not saying she's making 500whp off the line...
and i'm not saying you'll get 0 traction via certain things

my point here is that traction with the proper parts on your car..and knowledge of how to tune/run the car you will be able to optimize the amount of traction you can get...

but lets get back to the point of our little discussion

you disagree that knowledge of tuning/control and funds are not wat limits traction but its HP...

so at wat HP do you think constricts traction issues?

or why don't you agree that knowledge and tuning are traction limitations

because the way i'm looking at this right now its that the knowledge of how to tune your car to run at various levels to control the HP output via different systems is how to gain traction

This post has been edited by playr158: Aug 2, 2006 - 2:10 PM

[jgreening]

but lets get back to the point of our little discussion

(1) you disagree that knowledge of tuning/control and funds are not wat limits traction but its HP...

(2) so at wat HP do you think constricts traction issues?

(3) or why don't you agree that knowledge and tuning are traction limitations

1. Where did I say that knowledge and properly setting up a car are not important for maximing traction?
What I disagreed with is your statement that horsepower does not cause traction issues. Thats just silly.

2. It depends on the car. I think a good rule of thumb is probably about 250whp with street tires but that can vary.

3. See answer to number 1.

[creis]

bottum line a single cam turbo civic cant make 425hp, no way

[Fastbird]

Here comes the domestic guy in me:

For what I know, who cares how many cams a car has. It can have one, two, four, whatever. All cams are there to do is performe the valvetrain cycle. Two cams does the same thing as one cam, four cams do the same thing as one cam.