the 4th gen 3s....(aka st215), people dont seem to like it much? Options

[brianforster]

by the way, in that thread i dont know if anyone read far enough to see but heres a dynograph of the 4th gen as close to stock as possible with the nemesis he installed



11 psi, spiked to 12 at 3500 rpms

This post has been edited by brianforster: Aug 24, 2006 - 9:24 PM

[CelicaB]

yeah so the quick 280-290 HP daily driver that (hopefully) only requires a little bit more maintaning than the car does now yeah i think youll be happy with the ST215 (260) with some minor bolt ons/supporting mods/ a little extra boost (+20or so) and if you have to maybe a different turbo putting you around 300-315 and with the supporting mods

of course all of this is dependant on the fact there isnt a huge diffence in wiring or anything like that that can be worked out

(edit for thread above: im talking flywheel HP hes talking wheel HP (i assume) and my numbers are of course brand new booklet numbers not real life running of a motor a few years old so i think were both about right)

(edit again cause im slow) sounds like tweak made up his mind on the ST215 and he'll be more than happy working with it youll be more than happy with it in your car

This post has been edited by CelicaB: Aug 24, 2006 - 9:32 PM

[easternpiro1]

man look how many people viewing this thread, its a hot thread.

i hope you do it, you have the advantage of paying doc to do it (i guess we all have the choice, im sayin its just nice to know that you are going to have someone who knows his **** working with ya)

maybe in the 4th generation they fixed the 3sgtes pickiness about ignition components, that would be sweet..

just do it dude, its gonnna be SWEET.

edit: i would talk to doc about doing standalone, since you have to pay him to do the wiring anyway it might be easier and only slightly more expensive to go standalone and youd be able to have doc in-house dyno and tune it

[color=#3366FF]i dont think i can afford to do standalone at this point, wish i could, i can hopefully afford it later, but im happy with 260-290whp thanks for the encouragement brian!

We went with the ST215 for a few reasons. For one, the supplier I went with had an ST185 and an ST215 in stock... no ST205. The ST215 was on special for only $300 more than the ST185, so I though, hey, for 35hp more, and an engine that's at LEAST 6 years newer, better turbo, MAP-sensored, etc, might as well go for it, so that's what I recommended to easternpiro.

The whole argument of "OMG LOL PArTs are GoInG to Be sO harD To FiND it's GonNa be a NiGtmAre LOL!!!11" is purely speculation. (Just for the record, I'm referring to threads in times past, not to anyone in this particular thread). There are a few things that are different from the USDM 3SGTEs that we know of. DLS ignition which means no coil, ignitor, or wires, different shaped intake manifold, and different exhaust manifold/turbo setup. Other than that, I can't see that Toyota would have made any changes to speak of when it comes to the timing belt, water pump, etc. It's STILL a 3SGTE, it's just a newer version of it.

And what a lot of people have said about the ST215 not being "worth the money" since you can get 260hp out of an ST185 with "a few bolt-ons" isn't really an issue here, since we only paid $300 more for this engine set. And it comes with a better turbo, larger injectors, and no pesky AFM, so it's got plenty of potential.

Lastly, the biggest obstacle to overcome with this swap is the wiring, and everyone is probably on-track saying that it's going to be quite a bit more difficult than a typical ST185 swap. Thankfully though, I'll be doing the wiring, so that's nothing to worry about!

Cheers!

[color=#3366FF]once again doc...U ARE THE MAN cheers back at ya (2 beers 4 ya )

yeah so the quick 280-290 HP daily driver that (hopefully) only requires a little bit more maintaning than the car does now yeah i think youll be happy with the ST215 (260) with some minor bolt ons/supporting mods/ a little extra boost (+20or so) and if you have to maybe a different turbo putting you around 300-315 and with the supporting mods

of course all of this is dependant on the fact there isnt a huge diffence in wiring or anything like that that can be worked out

(edit for thread above: im talking flywheel HP hes talking wheel HP (i assume) and my numbers are of course brand new booklet numbers not real life running of a motor a few years old so i think were both about right)

(edit again cause im slow) sounds like tweak made up his mind on the ST215 and he'll be more than happy working with it youll be more than happy with it in your car

[color=#3366FF] i was thinking the same thing man

oh and bforster, i saw that dyno sheet on mr2oc, and they said they were tuning it within a SAFE boost range, (11psi which isnt stock boost according to them) so imagine how much it puts out on stock boost at the wheels!!

[brianforster]

i thought he said he was tuning it to as close as stock levels as possible?

[playr158]

ok basically this is the way i see it

yes it maybe 300$ additional for a newer motor
but in reality it IS more difficult to work with and get parts for
(yes parts are obtainable but they will cost more and take longer to get)

don't get this because its newer..or cooler..or cause some mech thinks its a good option..you need to take in consideration the time, money and effort you want to but into this

just because someone says THEY'LL be doing the wiring and dropping it in doesn't mean much (esp when nobody hast done one before, there is no guarente that it will work or wat bugs it may have)...wahoo...YOU are the one who has to deal with it on a daily basis...YOU are the one who has to spend the extra money for tune up, maintence, and repair if something goes wrong..they don't..
so yes it might be a cost feasable option now but you need to look at what it could cost you in the future to use it.

its a fact you will be paying much more for parts then your typical 2nd gen or even 3rd gen motor owner...

so bro if you have the ability to finance the extra cost of having one and see it as a feasable option (they all make within 50 hp of eachother) but one option down the road will cost more...so if you can handle that then
i see no reason why not to go with it

good luck bro hope to see it done soon

[easternpiro1]

i thought he said he was tuning it to as close as stock levels as possible?

Quote:
Originally Posted by toyracer
You are a master of understatement. That is excellent, espeically when considering that the Caldina engines rated power is at 14psi.

Well done.


Thank you for the compliment. I was not 100% sure what the stock boost setting for this engine is supposed to be and we figured 11 was definately under that. Also, with the EMS we can pick up extra power over stock just from leaning the AFR to a more reasonable level when it is under boost.

The big problem with this engine by far seems to the the top mounted A2A intercooler (at least on the dyno). Even with a big fan sitting right on top of the IC pushing air down into it over the entire session, the intake manifold temps climbed from 32C during the first pull up to around 40C on the last pull. This is with at least an 8-10 minute wait between pulls.

i was shocked...

[lagos]

what turbo is on that thing?
do you have any pics of the motor your buying?

[easternpiro1]

what turbo is on that thing?
do you have any pics of the motor your buying?

no pics of the motor thats going in my car but heres what it looks like...



This post has been edited by easternpiro1: Aug 24, 2006 - 10:11 PM

[lagos]

yeah, i know what they look like. i was just wondering how yours looks.

[easternpiro1]

havent seen it yet its on order

[celicurr]

I wonder if you could drop that 4th gen 3S-GTE into a Matrix AWD...


I believe the 2007 Matrix dropped all the 4X4 models..

yup, 2007 there is no longer an AWD Matrix model

[CheesyLobster]

and when is this supposed to be done? I dont think there are any 4gen members on this site, and i'd like to see for certain how this goes.

good luck piro and dr.

[lagos]

I wonder if you could drop that 4th gen 3S-GTE into a Matrix AWD...


I believe the 2007 Matrix dropped all the 4X4 models..

yup, 2007 there is no longer an AWD Matrix model

i have an awd matrix. they only come in automatics and they have the 1zz motor, so it wouldnt be a direct swap.

[easternpiro1]

and when is this supposed to be done? I dont think there are any 4gen members on this site, and i'd like to see for certain how this goes.

good luck piro and dr.

im going to be dropping it off in the beginning of september (around the 5th) thanks lobster

[zipstrips]

I wonder if you could drop that 4th gen 3S-GTE into a Matrix AWD...


I believe the 2007 Matrix dropped all the 4X4 models..

id love to come across a cheap 4x4 matrix to swap too.....

[Punisher]

I laugh at this thread. No one has even brought up any ideas on WHY the 4th gen makes more power than the previous gens. Frankly to me it is very obvious. I also don't see where you guys are getting 260hp from.. that dyno showed 232... A 2nd gen with a FMIC can make near that power.

The reasons the 4th gen makes more power is because of a far superior intake manifold design and a better turbo.. also no AFM helps to free up the intake tract and the ignition system is a bit more robust, plus better ecu maps for ign./fuel.

I've also heard that the exhaust manifold on the 4th gen is actually molded with the head.. as in, the exhaust manifold and head are one piece... I don't know if that is true or not. I do know that the turbo is definitly part of the manifold.

My 2c... get a 2nd gen and build it. Even with that swap, I'd still rape you at the track

[playr158]

the exhaust manifold is NOT part of the head

the turbo and manifold are 1 piece though



just remember bench racing is ghey and for losers

This post has been edited by playr158: Aug 25, 2006 - 10:37 PM

[WannabeGT4]

Since we're getting into specifics, the later generation of 3SGTEs have a stronger block that can handle upwards of 700hp. The older ones had trouble cracking through the cylinder wall into the water jacket. It's on MR2OC somewhere.

The head and the manifold aren't one piece. The manifold and turbine housing are.

[Punisher]

The head and the manifold aren't one piece. The manifold and turbine housing are.

Thank you for the reiteration of this.

I'm not sure that easternpiro is going to ever push that sort of HP either. So many more things to get into before you consider the blocks strength when you build an uber high horsepower 3s.

[WannabeGT4]

The head and the manifold aren't one piece. The manifold and turbine housing are.

Thank you for the reiteration of this.

No, Thank you.