Proper suspension set-up Options

[hitcachi]

Well all my posting and talking to jdg and boosted on the autocross thread has me really going! My current set-up is as stands: 3 point front strut bar, 2 point rear strut bar. Front and rear Suspension techniques sway bars. Intrax lowering springs. JIC lower frame brace in the mail. and KYB GR-2's pending this question. I have a sport option GT. Should i replace the sealed struts with new ones (yes im willing to pay) or go source some other struts and install gr-2's? Also tires are being taking care of as well so thats no big thing. I need some more advice on what to do about the shocks though. Thanks!

[DeW_H0e_GT]

i have the same setup except for the springs.....yes...shocks is a must...kyb's are jus a oem replacement...if u could, go with koni's....

would u think of doing the fender braces?.....i wanted to but its too DAMN expensive....

[playr158]

get konis if your serious about autox the right way....you'll need the adjustment....invest in some camber plates from cusco http://www.japanparts.com/ (hint look under the ST205 it will fit)

wat size tires and wheels are you using..that makes a drastic affect

and for the fender braces...they are easy to make...long as you know someone with a welder they can be made for about 20$

[boosted_K2]

#1 thing to do is once your suspension is solid and its at a place where you plan to leave it for a while is get a custom alignment.

[Tech9ine]

I wish I had bought these bad boys instead of my GR-2s
http://www.bilstein.com/mistore/ymm_produc...oreYMM=storeYMM

[playr158]

I wish I had bought these bad boys instead of my GR-2s
http://www.bilstein.com/mistore/ymm_produc...oreYMM=storeYMM

yes but those arn't adjustable...to properly setup the car for autox he's going to need adjustable ones

[hitcachi]

get konis if your serious about autox the right way....you'll need the adjustment....invest in some camber plates from cusco http://www.japanparts.com/ (hint look under the ST205 it will fit)

wat size tires and wheels are you using..that makes a drastic affect

and for the fender braces...they are easy to make...long as you know someone with a welder they can be made for about 20$

Thanks dan for all the info. Honestly, i havent done much research into the koni's, but thats why i posted this. The camber plates i might hold off on for now. What sucks is i gotta go source some damn non sealed struts first. I can probably get some fender braces made by my local muffler shop. I know the guy pretty well.
I going to keep my 16 in. GTS wheels on and just put a wide ass tire on them. I would like to put on something bigger like.....a 17 but the intrax springs were a huge drop.

#1 thing to do is once your suspension is solid and its at a place where you plan to leave it for a while is get a custom alignment.

Can you explain a little more what you mean by a custom alignment. I was going to take it to a shop that specializes (i cant spell right now, please excuse) in suspension work. Little place called Inline Suspension. But i guess im not sure what your talking about.

This post has been edited by hitcachi: Aug 24, 2006 - 12:22 PM

[boosted_K2]

if you are going ot autocross it you DONT want the factory spec alignment, you will want something more agressive. It all comes down to how much you want to sacrifice to gain. the more agressive you go the more your tires are going to wear, the more conservative you go the less it will want to react.

if you dont care about tire wear, you will want a healthy ammount of camber, toe out the front, and just slightly toe in in the rear (maybe even neutral). however if you still plan to drive it daily on the streets you will want to go a bit more conservative, a little less front toe out and a little more rear toe in (makes the car more stable for highway driving), you may also want a little less camber, since most daily driving is done with the vehicle settled the inside shoulders of the tire wont wear as bad.

i spent a few minutes creating an excel sheet calculating my toe setting then i spent all morning deciding how i want to get my alignment done this afternoon hehe

[jdg371]

When I start collection suspension parts im bringing my car to an alignment shop 2hours(Suffolk) away from me cause theres a Autox guy that does it..

Im using all stock suspension parts for 1 more season so I can "feel" what my car lacks. the biggest one is the ginormous bodyroll.. (see pics in OT "Autocross")

whats the rating on those Intrax? All I know is that Stechs (SpongeTech)= bad rep in autox.. Ive seen many civics with them rub fender all day.

Also the more "mods" you the higher your class would be.. Im going to try for STS when my car is all "modded" up..

[LewFX]

if you want the whole strut from kyb then order the whole strut and not the inserts. i like my bilsteins btw.

This post has been edited by LewFX: Aug 24, 2006 - 2:35 PM

[Bigmeanbulldog55]

I've got some pretty extreme camber. I don't know how it got that way. When I got it alinged, I told my buddy to give me a little negative camber for autoX and solo2. You can tell the tires lean in just buy looking at it from in front or behind. The back is worse though. It's actually okay for street use. I run 90 on the highway every now and then, and it doesn't get unstable. And the tires haven't worn much. We'll see how it goes with that though.

Also, as anyone ever tried drilling the stock shocks to get the oil out, then replacing it with motorcycle shock oil? I've heard of doing this with some different kinds. They say it's risky if you don't get all the old out or the right amount back in. I'm just wondering if there are many problems with that.

Last thing, we need to get more on the suspension set-up sticky. I want to know what are the best springs to use for my autoX and solo2 careers.

[hitcachi]

Last thing, we need to get more on the suspension set-up sticky. I want to know what are the best springs to use for my autoX and solo2 careers.

OMGFEHIOCNEHGFOHERGVNSKLJVNOER!!!! I couldnt agree with you more! I learned a long time ago that my celica was too slow to d*ick with right now, so i have been dumping money into the suspension. Bulldog, what size tires do you have? Shocks are my main concern, granted there isnt too many options out there but... i was thinkin about some tokico blues? Any input on these or any other shocks would be awesome. Dan, where are you!!

[jdg371]

you want adjustment for motorsport! haha

How bout getting shortened struts and use MR2 inserts? Thats the way in going to do it..

[andrewb0x29a]

Honestly, i havent done much research into the koni's, but thats why i posted this. The camber plates i might hold off on for now. What sucks is i gotta go source some damn non sealed struts first.

No need to get non-sealed struts. The Konis for the rear are designed to use the existing sealed strut body in the rear. You just have to cut off the top of the strut and add a bolt hole to the bottom. Once I had all the necessary tools it took about an hour per strut. Fronts were faster since they already take inserts. If you want to spend even more $$$ then you can have Koni modify the shocks to make them double adjustable and modify the valving to suit your needs.

Can you explain a little more what you mean by a custom alignment. I was going to take it to a shop that specializes (i cant spell right now, please excuse) in suspension work. Little place called Inline Suspension. But i guess im not sure what your talking about.

I am running -2.5 degrees of camber on the front wheels. For a normal alignment most shops will just adjust the toe. Since camber is not adjustable on our cars you will need to install camber plates or camber bolts. Camber plates are much easier to work with. I would have done them but they aren't allowed for stock autoX classes. I installed the crash bolts instead. I would recommend going to a place that does autoX alignments. I went to a normal shop and had to explain to the mechanic how to adjust the camber. Once he understood what needed to be done he did a decent job but it was annoying that I had to tell him how to do it.

[hitcachi]

I am running -2.5 degrees of camber on the front wheels. For a normal alignment most shops will just adjust the toe. Since camber is not adjustable on our cars you will need to install camber plates or camber bolts. Camber plates are much easier to work with. I would have done them but they aren't allowed for stock autoX classes. I installed the crash bolts instead. I would recommend going to a place that does autoX alignments. I went to a normal shop and had to explain to the mechanic how to adjust the camber. Once he understood what needed to be done he did a decent job but it was annoying that I had to tell him how to do it.

so with you -2.5 degrees of front camber, you tires wear faster, but you have....less understeer? What is it getting you? And I've always been under the impression that celicas have slightly ajustable camber from the factory..., also explain more about the custom work with the rear struts? Sorry for the questions, i just believe that these cars have alot of potential through the suspension.

[Bigmeanbulldog55]

Bulldog, what size tires do you have?

I'm running stock size, the 205/55/15. I'm thinking about getting 215/50/15's for it, but I'm a little concerned with the rules in solo2. I have to read the book through again to make sure I can do that. I don't think it is legal. It's the same reason I'm not hesitant about putting EMS on my car. I'll be put into a class that I am not competitive in.

[andrewb0x29a]

so with you -2.5 degrees of front camber, you tires wear faster, but you have....less understeer? What is it getting you? And I've always been under the impression that celicas have slightly ajustable camber from the factory...,

For street use the inside edge of the tire should wear faster but I have noticed anything significant yet. For autocrossing it actually results in less wear (the outside edges are what get all the abuse). As far as driving goes it gives quicker turn in and allows me to keep on the power more through turns. I reran a practice course after I did the shocks and the alignment. With the changes I got rid of braking completely for some turns and some hard braking maneuvers became light taps. Since our cars are underpowered anything that can be done to avoid slowing down helps.

also explain more about the custom work with the rear struts? Sorry for the questions, i just believe that these cars have alot of potential through the suspension.

Assuming you have the rear shocks removed already, you start the installation by turning the strut body upside down and finding the center of the bottom plate. You then use a punch to make an indent in the center and drill a small (1/16" or so) hole in the bottom. This relieves the pressure on the shock and also serves as a starting point for the bolt hole later.

Then, using a hacksaw or cutoff tool you cut the top ~1 inch from the strut body (where the rod goes in). You just have to cut about 1/4" inch in all the way around. I put it in a vise and used an air cutoff tool. Most of the time was spent waiting for my small compressor to build up pressure so I could resume cutting.

With the top of the shock cut off you them dump all the internals into the trash. Using a file you remove and burrs from the cut-off section of the strut body. Finally, you drill out the hole on the bottom of the strut using a larger drill bit. I don't remember the size but it was > 1/4".

Now you get to install the Koni into the strut. You insert the strut into the body and hammer it into place using a rubber mallet. Once it is far enough in you put the bolt through the bottom of the strut tube and tighten it down. Now you just reverse the steps for removing the strut.

These aren't the best instructions and I should have taken pictures while doing it but I started on a Wed night and had to have it done for a Sat autoX...

[hitcachi]

hmmm, i might have to try it as a cheaper alternative..... but when you put a bolt in through the drilled hole, you're cutting new threads, so when you have to take it out teh next time, and put it back in, the bolt isnt going to seat right? besides that, how do you like your koni's? are they worth the price?

[andrewb0x29a]

hmmm, i might have to try it as a cheaper alternative..... but when you put a bolt in through the drilled hole, you're cutting new threads, so when you have to take it out teh next time, and put it back in, the bolt isnt going to seat right? besides that, how do you like your koni's? are they worth the price?

No, the bolt goes through the hole in the strut body and threads into the end of the Koni insert. No cutting of threads. I really like the Konis for autocrossing. I am running them fairly soft; a 1/2 turn up from full soft on the front and a 1/4 turn up on the rear. However, even with this setting they are noticably stiffer on bumpy roads.

I would do them again on an autocross car but would probably consider a different option if it was only a street car. If you are prepping your car for autocross the best thing to do is identify all of the allowed modifications and sort them in order of performance/$. Since I am running stock class I did my upgrades in the following order:

0) CG-lock ($??)
1) R-compound tires and light wheels ($550 for wheels + $125 for 6 used tires)
2) Suspension Technique front sway bar (~$125(?))
3) Konis ($650)
4) Crash Bolts (~$12 + $200 for custom alignment)
5) K&N Air Filter

I did the sway bar almost immediately after doing the R-compounds because with the grippier tires I was getting a lot more body roll (rear inside wheel ~12" off the ground). The sway bar helped with that and was cheaper (and easier to install) than the Konis. Also, it took almost 8 weeks to get my Konis after I ordered them from TireRack.

If you are running in a different class you will have a different set of mods and may want to do them in a different order. Do you have a list of everything you want to do?

[boosted_K2]

yikes $200 for a custom alignment, that was expensive.... especially if you plan on trialing various setups.