2AZFE? Options

[Negative]

woah ease up. This is a good conversation and one me and my friends have been asking since I got my '05 tC. I'd like to know what the answers are before this degenerates further and gets locked.
Tweak?

This post has been edited by Negative: Nov 13, 2006 - 5:49 PM

[macavely]

I'm sorry i thought the NO explained the answer to the question .

mount locations do not match
an the bolt patters did not seam to be the dame.

[Dr_Tweak]

Hey all, sorry it took me so long to get in on this discussion.

Personally, I think that the 2AZFE is a great swap candidate for the Celica, or even the Corolla. The wiring is a non-issue for me, if anyone wants to do this swap just send me the harnesses and I'll return a plug and play harness for $350 plus shipping.

The other major issue is mounting. If the 2AZFE will bolt up to an S-series tranny, then the problem is just about solved, the only issue being the passenger's side mount, which may or may not fit. You would use GT axles.

On the other hand, if it doesn't bolt up, then you're looking at custom mounts and axles. Even so, that's not a big deal considering the engine will fit in the car easily enough and it's a worthy swap (160hp/160tq).

We really just need someone to match the 2AZFE up to an S54 and see if it will work. Or does anyone know what the manual tranny that comes with the 2AZ is called?

-Doc

[uberschall]

the bolt patterns don't seam (sic) to be the same?

that seems to be an unfounded statement. they must be factually different for the statement to mean anything.

the mounts DO NOT have to be exact. they should obviously be close, but the phrase "custom motor mounts" is not a fantasy term referring to mystical devices contrived by faeries and delivered by unicorns. if there are slight discrepancies between the mount locations, a skilled shop guy could fab a set of custom mounts pretty easily. this is not really a big deal.

the transmissions, however...do present a larger, but not necessarily unsolvable issue. if the 2AZ does have the same main bolt pattern as an S54 or E153 trans, life is good. if not, the E35 from the scion would have to be used, maybe requiring a little more fab work for mounts, and possibly some axle magic.

ultimately, you could put a caterpillar diesel in a celica, it would just require more work, more money, and more time. nobody has asked about something that ludicrous and thus, a highly negative response is unnecessary.

we're talking about the possibility of an inline four-cylinder toyota engine from a late-model, fwd application being installed in an older toyota inline four-cylinder, fwd vehicle.



edit: whoa, thanks tweak! missed your post while i got a beverage.

This post has been edited by uberschall: Nov 13, 2006 - 6:15 PM

[Bigmeanbulldog55]

How about the cost of the 2azfe? Is it easy to get ahold of one of them? They come in the Solars, Camrys, and TCs, right? About the transmission thing, if we can find out what kind of auto came on the Camrys and Solars when they first swapped into these motors, and if it's different from the most recent auto's in the Camrys with 5sfes, we'll have the answer.

EDIT: Sorry Mac, I got a little carried away there.

This post has been edited by Bigmeanbulldog55: Nov 13, 2006 - 6:50 PM

[playr158]

http://www.scionlife.com/tech/parts/image....=tc05_1_H04.gif
http://www.scionlife.com/tech/parts/image....=tc05_1_G04.gif

[Bigmeanbulldog55]

http://www.scionlife.com/tech/parts/image....=tc05_1_H04.gif
http://www.scionlife.com/tech/parts/image....=tc05_1_G04.gif

Links don't work

[JesterDC]

http://www.scionlife.com/tech/parts/image....=tc05_1_H04.gif
http://www.scionlife.com/tech/parts/image....=tc05_1_G04.gif

Links don't work

They work for me

[K-ESD]

We really just need someone to match the 2AZFE up to an S54 and see if it will work. Or does anyone know what the manual tranny that comes with the 2AZ is called?

-Doc

EDIT: The tranny is a E-350
camry has a E-351 with a longer 5ht gear and final drive

This post has been edited by K-ESD: Nov 13, 2006 - 9:59 PM

[Dr_Tweak]

Since the tranny is an E-series, then mounting it would be similar, if not identical, to using a E153 with a 3SGTE swap.

I think that the main issue with this swap is that with the 3SGTE so readily available and so relatively easy to swap into the Celica, why would one bother? The 3SGTE has been, and remains to be, the NUMBER ONE BEST Toyota 4-cylinder engine, EVER. Why go anywhere else?

Of course, if someone actually wants a 2AZFE, I'd be more than happy to swap it in, but that's just because I'm such a nice guy

-Doc

[K-ESD]

Since the tranny is an E-series, then mounting it would be similar, if not identical, to using a E153 with a 3SGTE swap.

I think that the main issue with this swap is that with the 3SGTE so readily available and so relatively easy to swap into the Celica, why would one bother? The 3SGTE has been, and remains to be, the NUMBER ONE BEST Toyota 4-cylinder engine, EVER. Why go anywhere else?

Of course, if someone actually wants a 2AZFE, I'd be more than happy to swap it in, but that's just because I'm such a nice guy

-Doc

Be even nicer and drop in a V6 instead

[K-ESD]

I'm sorry i thought the NO explained the answer to the question .

mount locations do not match
an the bolt patters did not seam to be the dame.

from looking into the scion forums, i found no evidence of our tranny bolting to the AZ block nor mounts matching. I guess your right.

This 2AZ idea is starting to look non feasable.

[playr158]

don't be so narrow cause you can't slap on a tranny...oh noes!
its not too hard to relocate a tranny mount if need be

i mean your swapping a motor and your saying no because of a tranny mount?

do more research

[XS4lv1Truch0x]

anything is feasable.

if they shoved a v8 in a 5gc than we can put a 2azfe in a celica.

its all in the money my friend if you are serious and determined than it can be done.

non feasable is just a word.

[uberschall]

i've only started to understand toyotas transmission codes because of the searching i've done about this swap, but according to dr. tweak, the e-series in the camry and tc should mount similarly to the e153. this is good news.

after some thought, the s54 wouldn't make very good use of the extra power anyway...so using the tc's transmission would be a pretty good idea.

so we are approaching the ideal:

2AZFE engine
E350 trans

this leaves:

axles
diff options (is there an lsd in an e-series that would fit?)
engine managment (vvti ecu from tc, standalone?)

[Bigmeanbulldog55]

I don't think the non-fesiable should be talked about. The question is, is it pratical? Prices on 3rd and 4th gean 3sgte's, and TC clips with trannies and mounting costs. For me, it would be a question of 3rd gen 3sge or 2azfe. And the 3sge has it beat. But, the 2zafe has a lot better aftermarket. But how much aftermarket do you really need? I can get a good port polish for any car. As well as custom bottem end, manifolds, exhaust, EMS modifications.

[K-ESD]

don't be so narrow cause you can't slap on a tranny...oh noes!
its not too hard to relocate a tranny mount if need be

i mean your swapping a motor and your saying no because of a tranny mount?

do more research

thats exactly what i'm saying, research won't prepare you for when you cut the **** out of a celi, weld in some mounts then because of that something interferes with something or axles don't fit, shifter cables don't reach, stuff doesn't line up and one thing f-cks up annother and everything becomes one big as-s disaster.
This isn't body work where every part is passive , this is high profile mecanical engineering
Yeah sure you "can" make it work but by that time you're getting into a franken swap type of job and you might as well put a jet engine connected to your rear wheels.... only with a 2AZ you'd have 25HP more, still FWD, still a 4 banger. (not putting the 2AZ down, just pointing out that if you're about to do a monster garage type of swap, might as well get something better)

A "feasable" swap is something that can be done with little or no modification to a car.
This is NOT feasable, unless someone comes up with clear and accurate information about the bolt patern AND mount locations and in the case of mounts not fitting, XYZ dimensions, axle lengths, axle splines at both ends -does the E-35 axles fit our hub.... maybe, but probly not, even if they do they are most likely not the right length. so custom axles, custom tranny/motor mount, custom shifter cables, custom misc. part that didn't fit... get my drift?

It's never been done and the foundation for this swap is not looking very solid (speaking of information/research material)

[Bigmeanbulldog55]

A swap is something that can fit. Sure, there are alot of guys out there that can't do that custom work, but they're more likely to have someone else do the swap for them. So, it doesn't really matter what they know. All that really matters is that Dr. Tweak is willing to do it, and someone is willing to pay. After that, we'll have proof it will work. It only takes one till you have this "clear and accurate information." If I really wanted, I could get a wrecked TC and cram it in my car. It isn't something I want to do, so there isn't much chance in that happening. I still think their are some better swaps, but the 2zafe definately has the better aftermarket. It'll pick up in numbers, and the 3sge with go down. That'll make the 2zafe cheaper, and the 3sge more expensive. Got to be ready for it when that happens.

[Kwanza26]

who freaking cares about the definitioin of 'forged' and whether they'd just change things all of the sudden!!! This Topic has some serious potential, so "c'mon guuyys Keeap it Serial!"

Uhem... learn to spell. Just so you realize there is a big difference between a discussion of "possibility" and a discussion "probability".

thats exactly what i'm saying, research won't prepare you for when you cut the **** out of a celi, weld in some mounts then because of that something interferes with something or axles don't fit, shifter cables don't reach, stuff doesn't line up and one thing f-cks up annother and everything becomes one big as-s disaster.
This isn't body work where every part is passive , this is high profile mecanical engineering
Yeah sure you "can" make it work but by that time you're getting into a franken swap type of job and you might as well put a jet engine connected to your rear wheels.... only with a 2AZ you'd have 25HP more, still FWD, still a 4 banger. (not putting the 2AZ down, just pointing out that if you're about to do a monster garage type of swap, might as well get something better)

You sound like I did when you and others started dreaming about V6 swaps (except everyone else kept dreaming and you actually did it)... Experience sure does change things huh?

Ok... it's a 160hp engine 160 ftlbs of torque... 2.4 liter econo engine. I fail to see the point behind all of that custom work for a marginally better performing motor over the 5SFE... but hey... that's just me. I think all of those who have NOT done swaps... should just shut up and quit speculating. Like I told k-esd back when he was talking about a V6 swap... shut up and go do it. If you're gonna do it... do it. People don't care about 'wanting to do it'... Hell... people want a lot of things, however this is uncharted waters. Are you gonna ask hoping for a path to be made, or make the path?

Personally speaking... I would NOT even bother with this swap. The engine is new and expensive... TC's are fairly cheap cars... they look nice, handle every bit as good as a 6gc, they have the amenities, the aftermarket support, and in this case, which suddenly seems to be so debate-able, they have the 2AZ. Why not spend all of that money and buy the damn car instead? Don't give me none of that crap about 'originality' and 'uniqueness' or whatever. "unique" would be swaping in a motor that actually has performance value... not an updated version of the 5SFE. To think I originally hated (and still do to some degree) toyota/scion for putting the 2AZFE in the TC... heh

This post has been edited by Kwanza26: Nov 14, 2006 - 11:19 AM

[pandakid]

I have a 2azfe! soon to be 2azfze

the motor is newer, better technology. to be honest, i dunno what makes it much better than the 5sfe. perhaps head design? i know the 2az actually handles quite well under boost. not too sure about the 5s.

got any pictures?